Legality of offering parrot and macaw feathers for sale? - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2003, 01:25 AM
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Question Hey Flytyer

Can you answer me this. I found a guy with heron, and I asked him about the CITES before I even thought about buying. This is his response to me. I thought ALL heron must have some sort of CITES? Here's the line I got (names deleted to save the innocent )

There is no CITES on the heron. It is from a species of grey heron
that is
not covered under CITES. These are not blue heron which would be
illegal.


What do you think?
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  #17  
Old 05-22-2003, 01:21 AM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Steelheader69,

Don't touch it with a 10' pole. The guyis trying to sell you illegal heron and giving a line a BS to justify why he doesn't need the permit or proof of domesticity. Ask him if it would be OK for you to have the Federal Wildlife Agent come by with you to see the heron just go make sure that you aren't going to buy something illegal. My guess is that you will no longer be very welcome around his place.

Remember that the federal fines (up to $10,000.00) and possible fedreal jail time (up to 10 years) are not worth the risk. Unfortunately, there is some of this illegal selling going on with heron and polar bear. Remember that heron is regulated by the feds in the U.S. because it is considered an endangered or threatened bird.

Herter's of old tried to sell illegal, non-CITIES permitted jungle cock by calling it by its real name of Grey Jungle Fowl. They got away with it for about 7 years. Then the feds caught up with them bringing a semi-truck load of it accross the border from Canada. The resulting fines put the company into bankruptcy and they ceased to exist. All for a little profit.

Use Blue-eared Pheasant. It is legal and there is not need to worry about what the feds may say.
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2003, 02:27 AM
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Thanks

That's what I thought. Actually, he's online, I have corresponded through email about it. I wanted to make sure before I bought any.

I've tried the BEP, I like it. But I could get this for about same price as the BEP I have, so wanted to try if legal. Will throw that at him and see. lol
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  #19  
Old 05-22-2003, 09:47 AM
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Heron

Maybe the guy selling this heron is a Federal Wildlife Agent.
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2003, 12:52 AM
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Couldn't be MJC

That would be entrapment BIG time. Law suit against gov't too. You asked if needed a CITES, guy claims it's legal, and sells to you saying it's actually a legal bird. Now, I can see if guy never asks. But that would be crazy. We'll see. Gonna report him and see what happens.
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  #21  
Old 08-15-2003, 06:48 PM
papigomez papigomez is offline
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Hi Chirs,

My wife and I have a Aztec Dance Group in San Diego and we buy Macaw feathers for our group. If you or your friend are interested in selling your feathers, please let me know. I will be more than happy to buy all of them from you, if you give me a good deal.
Thanks
Luis Gomez
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  #22  
Old 08-16-2003, 10:55 AM
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Rea feathers

are being marketed as Super Spey Hackle by Siskiyou Aviary in Ashland. They are rather pricy at $10 for 6 feathers. but still, that's a lot cheaper that $10K for one! And jail time to boot.

><///('>
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  #23  
Old 08-16-2003, 11:43 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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JD,

Exactly!! And this is why I keep telling people to use legal substitutes or to make sure they get the Certification of Domestically Raised bird or Certification that the feathers were acquired prior to 1972. The legal risks are not worth it to acquire the "real thing", and it is also poor conservation practice to tie flies with feathers from endangered or theatened species.

The great tyers of the 1800's (Kelso, Blacker, Francis, Maxwell, Hardy, Hale, etc.) freely substituted feathers in their tying and spoke of it in their books, why should we be any different than the old "masters" in our tying. Is a spey fly any less a spey fly because it uses blue-eared pheasant instead of heron? Of course not!
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2003, 12:32 AM
Robert Meiser Robert Meiser is offline
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Hey JD,

Just talked with Katie Davidson of Siskiyou Aviary.

She's been shiping feathers to fly tiers, mask makers, and many other feather artisans for nearly 15 years, and she will have the skinny on the legal ins and outs of marketing domestic feathers ...Number: 541-488-2835

I have known Katie for many years... Been boothing with her and Paul Miller/Super Spey for years at shows around the country.

She's a super gal, and very knowledgable on these matters as it is her business to import/export feathers world wide.

I get all of my rod inlay feathers from Katie.


Bob Meiser
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2003, 09:36 AM
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Interesting but not surprising that some of you have alos seen the guy on e-bay selling blue heron...I asked him if he could provide, prior to any purchase, a certificate of authenticity asurance...I too felt uncofortable wit h his response and did not pursue the issue. Threrisk on the downside is just too great there...the rhea feathers are special if you have not used them.
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  #26  
Old 08-21-2003, 12:52 AM
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Great blue Heron

I am quite confident the the GBH is NOT on the endangered species list. CITES may not be an issue. it is on a special lsit that gives them more potection than other migratory birds. I believe that it is illegal to buy and sell their feathers, but I have never been able to get a straight answer form someone in a position to know, if it is illegal to own them.
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  #27  
Old 08-21-2003, 09:14 AM
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One thing you can be sure of. If it were legal to own GBH feathers, someone would be marketing and selling them.

><///('>
JD
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2003, 01:52 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Nevada Caster,

Heron is on the Threatened Species List, not the Endangeered Species List. They are protected under federal law and there is a $10,000.00 fine for the killing, possession, sale, or use of any part of the bird, including its feathers. The exceptions are if the feathers were acquired prior to July 1, 1972 (and you better be able to prove they were acquired before then), or the feathers were acquired from a bird raised in captivity (again you have to be able to prove that they were raised in captivity).

This is no different from hawks and eagles in the U.S., neither of which are on the Endangered Species List anymore since the Bald Eagle was changed from Endangered Status to Threatened Status 3 years ago. It is still illegal to kill, possess, sell, or use any part of an eagle or hawk unless you are a member of a federally recognized Indian Tribe or Alaskan Native Corportation in the U.S.

I wouldn't touch heron feathers unless I the person offering them had proof that they were either acquired prior to July 1, 1972, or that they were from birds raised in captivity. And he better give me a copy of this documentation too so that I am protected.
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  #29  
Old 08-21-2003, 02:56 PM
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Would feathers aqquired from a bird prior to 1972 still be usable?
Wouldn't the stems be awfully brittle by now?
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  #30  
Old 08-21-2003, 08:52 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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JD,

It depends on how they were taken care of and stored. I have 2 jungle cock necks that I acquired in 1971 when I purchased the last four that a sporting goods store had that are unused. I have used up one of the four and have been using the other one the last two years and the stems are not brittle. The blasted recipt for them is almost unreadable though. It seems that cash register tape ink doesn't hold up very well after 30 years.
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