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Old 04-30-2003, 03:27 PM
JimW JimW is offline
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Question Do Beansprouts Feel Pain?

OK all you scientists...... I know your out there... Lurkers too, this concerns everyone.

Here's you chance to make a difference.

This is a scary article. I say we prove beansprouts have feelings too That should be enough to send Peta running.

Personally I really don't care if the fish can feel pain but I am very concerned about the beansprouts.
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Old 04-30-2003, 03:47 PM
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FredA FredA is offline
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Heard about the new scientific evidence on the ride home. Here we go again.
Fred A.
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Old 04-30-2003, 03:52 PM
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Hawkeye Hawkeye is offline
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Acid and Bee venom are a little different than hooks unless I've missed a significant part of this fishing thing. I want to go on a rant but I'll leave it at that.
Tight Lines,

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Old 04-30-2003, 03:54 PM
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Nick Nick is offline
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If I was a fish and I didn't know what vinegar tasted like, I would rub my mouth on the rocks too. You can't tell me that eating Blue Claw Crabs whole is less painful then a barbless fly. I won't believe it. Ever.

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Old 04-30-2003, 03:59 PM
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Lipripper Lipripper is offline
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As part of my find something positive in everything approach to life....I am hopeing that they can pinpoint the fish that feels the MOST pain because chances are that's the species that fights the hardest. Then I can focus all my time and attantion on the good fighters(or pain feelers) and all this science won't go to waste.

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Old 04-30-2003, 04:19 PM
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juro juro is offline
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And what has PETA ever done to save entire species of fish from extinction? What about anglers? If not for those who lead a life of interaction with animals, respecting their habitat, protecting their welfare against eccentric human thinking, they and their habitat would have long been wiped out.

So who really cares about fish, anglers or PETA? Let's compare track records over the last few centuries. Literally millions of sportsmen spend time, money and energy protecting the resources they interact with. PETA pontificates about an irritated lip while dams wipe entire species from existence and 14 mile oil slicks float toward precious shorelines.

Get your heads out of your warm and fuzzy $%#^@ and see the big picture - it's not about a sting in the lip, it's about keeping the concept of wild places and the species that thrive in them from vanishing under the spinning wheels of civilzation.

Obviously some people have spun so far away from the rhythm of nature and mother earth that they are obsessed with minutia, a sting in the lip, instead of the welfare of an entire species.

We accept vaccines to prevent or even eliminate measles, small pox, major devastating diseases that affect populations, not local neurons. We inject anesthetics to avoid pain in surgery, a flesh cutting practice that saves lives and families. Sometimes it takes a little sting to improve the big picture. What a bunch of idiots, really!
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Old 04-30-2003, 07:08 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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Sportsmen are so good at promoting PETA. PETA does a foolish press release, that most of the world ignores, and sportsmen wind up their panties untill they can can hardly breath. The internet slows to a crawl as every hunting/fishing forum cries and moans about big bad, scary PETA. I got news for you all: PETA is like the Wizard of OZ. A weak little man behind a megaphone. Everyone else in the US can see this, but not sportsmen. Too bad. We should just ignore them. Or we can cry like babies. Then kids will think that fishing is cool.
We need to keep our eye on the real threats to fishing: habitat loss, overfishing, pollution, and access. Thes factors have already made fishing forever worse. How has PETA affected our fishing? While we are whining about how PETA might be a threat, comercial fishermen are allowed to catch more stripers than ever. The clean air and water and endangered species acts are being dismantled and ignored. Private land owners are buying up land a closeing it off to fishermen and on and on.
As for fish feeling pain...who cares? Would any of us quit fishing if we thought fish feel pain? If fish could think, don't you think that they would be thankfull that we release most of them?
One cast can change your day...maybe your life.
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Old 04-30-2003, 08:32 PM
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willmullis willmullis is offline
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I was waiting for a fire breathing rant on this one. Juro's got my vote for the "Rant Of The Day"!
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Old 04-30-2003, 08:34 PM
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Dble Haul Dble Haul is offline
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If I were to follow my own personal bias, I would delete this thread in its entirety right now. I read the article in full this afternoon and didn't post about it because of reasons that Eddie has already brought up....PETA is merely a group of lemmings, letting one drone lead them to the edge of an intellectual cliff. No, that's not right....for that model to work, they'd have to have intellect to start with. And again, Juro has made some great points. The hollow can is the one that makes the most noise, right?

Let me say as a scientist with a very strong background in physiology that this study, while it may stand on its own, is a mere grain of sand in comparison to a beach of other studies that have shown fish to be lacking the cerebral essence to process pain. They merely act on instinct. The concept of pain requires a psychological component that DOES NOT EXIST in fish. Period. There was no information given regarding the modeling of this study, and I'm very certain that if it is ever provided that it could be shown to hold some bias (either statistical or within its inherent design).

I could delve into further detail, but it's not worth my time. If you're really interested, ask me via PM. In the meantime, let's spend our energies on what we love. It's okay to be aware of extreme animal rights groups, but let's not give them a podium.
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Old 04-30-2003, 08:55 PM
BobK BobK is offline
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I agree...

This study sounds to me like one made up especially for the press, with a predetermined conclusion, and lacking in logical, statistical or scientific foundation. Forget about it.

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Old 04-30-2003, 09:13 PM
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If fish felt pain, the Big Guy would have given them vocal chords (OUCH):eyecrazy:
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Old 05-01-2003, 03:37 AM
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Willie Gunn Willie Gunn is offline
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I thought peta were against testing on animals.

Yet they let a big nasty scientist inject those cute little trouties (probably called Timmy) with a big nasty needle containing acid and bee venom. Let us all go down and protest break the tank and let the trout go.

Ironic moi

Willie Gunn
Quot homines tot sententiae
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Old 05-01-2003, 10:09 AM
DFix DFix is offline
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There's one thing everybody keeps forgetting. Liberty. Freedom.

Sadly, both are veils for mutiny, sedition, treachery and evil.

Military Forces go to war to mostly uphold political beliefs; The United States Military goes to war to mostly support freedom and democracy; both tenets, proven to work in society, worldwide.

We (generic), the mostly liberal democratic citizens of these United States, espouse domestic and world freedoms. Which, by support alone, fosters and EMPOWERS extremism, radical activity and the existence of groups like these fascists. Regardless of how any one of us, the sporting population feels, whether it be toward their irrelevance or underhandedness or whatever, our government structure allows them to exist. That is where the barrage of counter-fire needs to be directed; back to valid arguments against their actions and activities and the legality thereof; whether by their actions if they violate basic premises of governmental authorization of their existence...back to the stewards of any enabling legislation letting these organizations thrive...

ad nauseum.

Example: Lately, everybody's bitching about ASMFC and Amendment 6. I, for one, am as guilty as anyone else who didn't take time to write or attend a meeting to voice my strong opposition to changes in Striper regulations. So, I get what I give.

My point: In my mind, by my personal inaction - regardless of my pisspoor, weak excuses as to why I didn't or couldn't; to fail to make my position known and myself heard on Amendment 6 or anything else which directly affects my 'rights', is parallel with ignoring the subversive and devastating effects these types of organizations have on our right and privilege to fish - which is exactly what it is, a right as well as a privilege. I an unwilling to let the progeny of the 'ME' generation take away something that is, always was and will continue to be a part of MY life.

There is no one amendment to the Constitution of the United States which supersedes or invalidates any other amendment. And, the United States Constitution - the document of freedom from which the world draws and aspires to (or SHOULD), was fashioned after the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the oldest continuously effective Constitution in the WORLD; Massachusetts, Where 'Freedom' Began.

If we ignore them, they continue to metastasize.

[EDIT:] If we ignore them, WE BECOME IRRELEVANT.

I swore my allegiance to the flag a long time ago, for a lot of different reasons. Little did I think at the time I'd be defending the EMPOWERMENT and EXISTENCE of groups like these. The Five Freedoms are great, as long as they don't mutate into weapons against themselves and ultimately US. Frankly, I like the Five Freedoms as Norman Rockwell portrayed them, not the ways they've been twisted to suit the needs of the user.

If a grain of sand gets in my shoe, does it not irritate me to rid myself of it? It is not a case of 'ignore them and they will disappear'.

Every time a report like this comes out, I cringe a little harder and feel myself steeling to do battle a bit more.

I'll be damned if I'll let my freedoms be eliminated by people whose freedoms I fought to uphold.

I hope everyone who reads this extracts a tiny sliver from it that affects them positively, personally. I am not attacking anyone here, nor do I desire to get into a firefight because of what I feel.

Rant Over.
Semper Paratus.

Last edited by DFix; 05-01-2003 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 05-01-2003, 12:09 PM
JimW JimW is offline
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Dave, Very well said. I agree that if you ignore them they will not go away. Regardless of PETA's size or finances at present one thing is certain, they play on emotions. It doesn't cost much to put up a billboard for a month or two. Since most of the public (myself included) might not always take the time to dig into the facts of an issue they may be lead in a certain direction without too much effort. Take the steel traps in Mass. - a few years back the use of these traps was abolished. Images of household pets and small children were put into the heads of the ignorant majority and BANG no more traps. While a house cat or two might have been saved from the jaws of the trap. How many have been killed by the increased coyote population. On this issue I knew the facts but I knew it would pass anyway.

My point being, sometimes just a few words can swing the vote if not opposed.

Now I just know beansprouts can feel pain, on some level.
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Old 05-01-2003, 06:58 PM
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FrenchCreek FrenchCreek is offline
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Last night I caught 17 trout. I asked each one if they felt pain at the prick of the barb in their lip or pleasure at the morsel/fly they thought was food, or shame that they had been tricked by a fisherman or pride that they had beaten their fellow trout in the pursuit of my fly or anger that their fight with me was not theirs to win.
Every one of them told me that I should ask the one that got away....
As for the beansprouts, well we had a late spring LARGE dump of snow last weekend so I have to wait a few more days before I bring them in for interrogation. I;ll let you know waht they have to say.
Pete AKA Frenchcreek from Calgary
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