Buillding your own sink tips. Probably old ground here. - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #1  
Old 04-12-2003, 07:47 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Buillding your own sink tips. Probably old ground here.

LC 13 was the old standard; Aaron sent me some new stuff (far! better! and if I got it right it's 14 grains per foot. RIO has their "big boys' clocking in at 300-400-500 grains per foot.

Is any of this stuff available for a 'do it yourself' project? Thinking forward to the Spring King season where the lead chuckers are using (water flow conditions) from 1.5-3 oz of lead to get down and stay down. That we can't match ... but closer ... short of putting lead shot on your leader?
fae
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2003, 10:23 PM
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Fred,

There has always been stuff around that will get you down in a heartbeat. The trouble is casting it for an entire day. Sections of 550 Deep Water Express will do the trick. If you can cast them DWE also comes in 650 and 750 grain versions I believe. I have a 13' section of the 550 that I use from time to time. Also have a 17' tip of the same that never gets used.

More to the question you asked, the Rio Type 8 comes on a roll so you can get how ever much you need. I picked up some the other day at a local shop. The price was .36 a foot so a 15' chunk cost me less than $6.

On any of the above, cut to length and install a braided loop, coat with aqua-seal and you are good to go.

sinktip
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Old 04-13-2003, 12:01 AM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Fred,

If you really want to get down, Deep Water Express and lead dumbell eyes on the fly are the way to go. Use the 700 gr. Deep Water Express (DWE comes in 550 gr., 700 gr., and 850 gr.) You will need to use your biggest rod though. I have an 11 1/2 foot piece of 700 gr. Deep Water Express that I use with my 1611 T&T when I really need to get down in a hurry.

The problem with the DWE and lead eye combo is pulling it up out of the water and then casting it before it starts sinking. It can be done, but it is not a pretty cast. And when it gets out to where you want it to be, it just crashes in the water - no finesse at all.
Your maximum casting distance will also be reduced somewhat because you have to open up the casting loop and the shear density and weight of the tip and lead eye fly.

You can also remove the second floating tip from a RIO Windcutter and put on a RIO Leviathon tip. Again it is not a pretty cast, but it gets the job done.

Almost forgot, like Sinktip said, casting this stuff will wear you out in a few hours. It take a lot of effort to pull it up and cast it.

Last edited by flytyer; 04-13-2003 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 04-13-2003, 12:12 AM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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FT, I'm always up for Dah Fred type questions.

Whose puts out the DWE? Spooled stuff or an actual line? Were we chase the Sping Kings is not a pretty thing anyway, so "style" is not an issue. Getting deep, down and dirty is the game.

I'll be using the B and W 18' 10-11 so this rod would throw a brick. Should say that a 60-80 foot cast is all I'd need for 95% of the fishing situations. Beyond that (GASP!) it's back to a 11-12 drift rod and 2 oz of lead.. AND YOU'LL NEVER GET A PICUTRE of that.

fae

Last edited by fredaevans; 04-13-2003 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 04-13-2003, 03:09 AM
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pescaphile pescaphile is offline
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Deep Water Express is a Scientific Angler's product. It's put out in a standard 30-foot shooting head. You can find it a most NW flyshops. Cortland also has something called "kerboom" a 30-foot lead-core shooting head in 450 grains and I think a larger size, 750 grains perhaps. It may or not be still available. All this stuff sinks like a brick, and also cast like one too.

pescaphile
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Old 04-13-2003, 07:15 AM
BobK BobK is offline
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You probably know about this already, but ????

Fred, some of the "heavy water" fanatics here make sink tips out of old fashioned lead core line, weighing the length on a reloader's scale to get the weight they want, cutting it, then attaching loops. They have been doing it for years. I assume you probably know about it already, but just thought I'd mention it in case it slipped the attention of the west coast guys.

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Old 04-13-2003, 11:57 AM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Gad, I was hopeing for 'tips' with lots of wt but

Quote:
Originally posted by pescaphile
Deep Water Express is a Scientific Angler's product. It's put out in a standard 30-foot shooting head. You can find it a most NW flyshops. Cortland also has something called "kerboom" a 30-foot lead-core shooting head in 450 grains and I think a larger size, 750 grains perhaps. It may or not be still available. All this stuff sinks like a brick, and also cast like one too.

pescaphile
shorter in size. But, then again the 18'B and W will throw a brick ... but it does ware you down pretty darned quick.
fae
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Old 04-13-2003, 02:08 PM
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loco_alto loco_alto is offline
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taking it a step further, RIO makes tungsten heads in 1000 and 1150 gr/30 ft. These some to 33 and 38 gr/ft.

Some folks fish 3-6' lengths of this meat chain on small streams for winter fish, attaching it directly to shooting line, on a single handed rod. Gets down fast, hangs up with zero line control, etc etc. Never considered using it on the business end of a spey rod, though.

Steve
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Old 04-13-2003, 07:44 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Steve, you may have a good answer to 'my old' question.

Has anyone "hacked up" these lines and done them as sink tips/sinking leaders?
fae
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Old 04-14-2003, 02:44 PM
kjackson kjackson is offline
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Hey Fred--

I used to use a short section of leadcore as a shooting head with mono running line while fishing for rockfish in Port Angeles harbor. It worked great as long as you learned to duck once in a while.

I have yet to do much cutting of lines, but that is the project I'm working on at the moment. I did try a short section of leadcore off a seven-weight SA multi-tip, and it casts fairly well. Not something I would care to fish on a regular basis without some fine tuning, though.

Here's my contribution to this thread-- leadcore line is manufactured in different break strengths as we all know. However, you might not know that the lead core only comes in two thicknesses or diameters (as a rule). The difference in pound test comes from the differences in the braided covering. I've got some 14-pound leadcore made with the smaller lead core, and it's a whole different animal from the usual run of line. I haven't played with it on a fly rod yet, but that's in the cards for this summer.

Keith
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Old 04-14-2003, 05:06 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Fred,

As pescaphile said, SA makes Deep Water Express and it comes in 30 foot spools in either 550 gr., 700 gr., or 850 gr. The weight of the line refers to what the whole 30 foot piece weighs. Cortland's Kerboom comes in 2 sizes 450 and 650 gr., again that is the weight of the 30 foot piece it comes packaged in.

DWE is a much more supple line than Kerboom. Any of these lines can be cut up into sink tips. Also, I forgot about the super heavy RIO heads; loco-alto, thanks for remembering them.

All of this stuff sinks like an anvil, and casts about as well too. Your big B&W would be able to chuck it in lengths up to 10 feet for the stuff over 700 gr. weight; but like I said, it won't be pretty.
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Old 04-14-2003, 10:21 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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I'll go on 'the hunt' for some of this stuff this week.

With the spring salmon, pretty and 50 cents will buy you a half cup of coffee. Water flow is usually kept at a minimum of 2500 cfs out of the dam. So by time you get to Medford you're running closer to 3500-4000 cfs. Sweep the bottom or stay home and watch tv.
fae
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Old 04-15-2003, 10:25 AM
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pmflyfisher pmflyfisher is offline
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Fred,

FYI, I have been using Deep Water Express sinking line cut up into tips since it came out which I think was in early 1980s (83/84)

I am a sink tip fanatic, always looking for new stuff to experiment with.

Current aresenal includes

- DWE
- Air Flo Poly Tips
- Cortland Sink Heads
- Rio T-14
- Home made LC, etc..

God I love the complexity of each part of this sport no one can ever master it all, there always something new to learn and apply, etc.

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Old 04-15-2003, 11:36 AM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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RIO T-14

Seen a couple of referrences to this of late; new product to me. What is it and how's it 'different?'
fae
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Old 04-15-2003, 11:39 AM
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pmflyfisher pmflyfisher is offline
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Its thin, flexible, casts well, and sinks like a stone in my initial on river tests.

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