Singles rather than trebles - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Classic Atlantic Salmon No pursuit rivals salmon rivers, flies & legacy

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  #16  
Old 04-13-2003, 10:36 PM
Per Stadigh's Avatar
Per Stadigh Per Stadigh is offline
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marketic,

The way you describe how to fish the cast out is exactly how I like to do it. I too ALWAYS strip line in as the fly comes round, in fast and/or cold water we are talking less than an inch per second while in slower and/or warmer water it might be good foot per second.

Aside from knowing that the fly is swimming actively at the leader's end, one also will detect even the slightest touch from a reluctant fish. It is amazing how many fish that comes to the fly without really taking. With the rod held high and with no active tension applied on the line one would not know a fraction of those touches. A lot of the fish I catch are such "touchers" that often take solided on another fly or a when encountering a different speed of the presentation.

This links up with the "long - short line debate" spinning on the Spey forum. The drawbacks asoc. with " line stripping" while using the shooting head rigs I fancy are far less when this constant retrieve is brought into the calculus. A good deal of the shooting line often is brought back WHEN FISHING THE CAST ROUND. A thin running line also is less affected by the water found between oneself and the fly than what is the case with a fat floating belly. This helps a lot when pointing the rod tip along the line, as both of us appears to prefer.

I too prefer sharp hooks, but feel that it is less critical with fresh run salmon than with more hard mouthed backenders. Ol' Hugh Falkus even advocated DULL hooks to ensure that the hook set in the jaw and not in the first tissue found......

On trebles I have to disagree. I have fished them for 30 years in Norway. They are superior alas not very elegant. Period.

Per Stadigh
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  #17  
Old 04-13-2003, 11:57 PM
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Steelheader69 Steelheader69 is offline
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Marketic

I always sharpen my hooks, if they're able to. Most chemically sharpened hooks are either sharp out of pack or tossed. Most will not take a file at all since they are actually hardened as they are chemically sharpened. All my long line releases have been just that. Acrobatic Steelhead or Coho that leap and toss and make it almost impossible to keep the slack out of your line. I still carry a file in my vests, but most of the time my hooks won't take one. I only use the fly or bait hook if it easily drives in without effort (I have the track marks on my thumb to prove it LOL). But, I've had more long liners with barbless. Though hooks drive deeper, you get enough slack and/or pressure from a leaping fish they can easily spit hook. I actually never had much problems with trebles, except trying to actually release the fish. When you have three barbs imbedded in a fishes mouth, isn't the easiest thing to pry out. But I'm good on the hook set, if I have a barb in, that thing won't come out. With barbless, I still drive that baby deep, but it doesn't take much with the typicle fighting styles of a silver/steelhead to knock one loose. Now a king, never had one long line on me.
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2003, 10:06 AM
Topher Browne Topher Browne is offline
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Stripping

As a reformed "long-liner," I was surprised by the results of my 2002 season: I landed the vast majority of salmon, including my largest fish, on a stripped fly. To say this was an 'eye-opener' understates the case; I was blown away.

Whether stripping or swinging, I now much prefer holding onto running line as opposed to the fat belly of an extended taper line. The running line seems to better transmit the subtle bumps and 'takes' that Per talks about.

Stripping the fly also counteracts a central flaw in most salmon-fishing technique: the tendency to fish the fly too slowly.

While fishing from a canoe with a hardcore salmon angler of the fairer sex, I heard the guide, seated in the stern, command her to "Strip, strip, strip!" at the end of the swing. She turned to him and said, "Excuse me?" Her sense of humor intact, she then dutifully began removing her clothes.

The benefits of "stripping" are many.........

TB
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2003, 09:36 PM
marketic marketic is offline
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TREBLE HOOKS AND FLY FISHING?

Hello, Per-- I agree with you that treble hooks are an effective way to put a fish on the beach. I never meant to imply that they do not hold fish (although I think an argument could be made that a well-sharpened single hook stuck securely in a fish's jaw will hold some fish better then a treble hook stuck in both jaws).

However, most of my fishing is done in Catch and Release areas these days so the issue of treble hooks is a moot point.

I still maintain that even where trebles are legal, though, it is not necessarily a good tool for the job. Salt water salmon fishing for example. It is common to catch under-sized fish that by law must be released (such as king salmon). I am amazed that the Canadians commonly use treble hooks in their Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries when in some areas they are compelled by law to release not only immature king salmon but adult coho salmon as well. Treble hooks in a C&R fishery!

Treble hooks as you confirm were designed to hold fish for the purpose of getting them into a net for a kill. But it's also true that I have used singles (or sliding doubles) in the salt water with enough success to make me realize that trebles are highly over-rated and are not particularly necessary.

When I first started using tube flies for steelhead in the early seventies I could not bring myself to utilize treble hooks the way I saw them used on the Tweed in Scotland, even though back then you could use trebles in all the Northwest rivers. So I made a decision to fish tube flies with single hooks, despite my concern that my flies would not "swim" properly. Surprise, the flies fished just fine and the single hooks held fish just as well as the trebles! When I returned to Scotland for Atlantics I dispensed with the treble hooks for singles and never saw any change in my beaching rate.

The biggest steelhead I ever caught in my life was back in the early eighties. I was showing my girlfriend how to cast and my fly inadvertently hit the opposite bank and became stranded high and dry on a rock. Wow, what a cast said my girlfriend. I plucked the fly off the rock into the water where it should have landed in the first place. Suddenly there was dead weight on the end of my rod. For several minutes I thought I was snagged on a log. I finally wrapped the line around my hand and started backing up the beach. Wrong move!! A tail the size of a shovel came out of the water and my heart skipped a beat. I manged to get my hand out of the coils and thirty minutes later I snaked a fall run buck steelhead onto the beach that I estimated weighed 16 kg. The fly? It was a No. 8 fine-wire barbless trout hook. It was parked securely behind the fish's maxilla and a nuclear device wouldn't have moved that tiny little (black) fly.

I had just returned from a trip to the Tweed where I'd met an old Scottish fisherman one day. We were sharing the same beat. Och, laddie, he said to me, voice firm with the wisdom of age. On the Tweed we have a saying and it's this: the smaller the fly the bigger the troot.
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  #20  
Old 04-15-2003, 08:08 PM
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I'm in same boat marketic

Trebles when used correctly are killing machines, what they were designed for. I grew up using them, but that was in the days when there wasn't talk of endangered Steelhead/Salmon. I grew up poor, and we subsidized our food with fish, seafood, and game meat. I grew up like I wasn't poor though, my family made sure we always had enough to eat, so I never realized I was poor until I got into high school where stupid things mattered. I saw how other kids got everything they wanted and had much nicer clothes. But, in long run, I was much better off and loved much more then they were.

Sorry, got off topic a bit. But I only use single hooks, even when multitip hooks are allowed. Most hooks I use can't be sharpened, but still give them a go over with file (I think I do more damage to file then the hook. LOL). But growing up how I did, if a fish was hooked, we wanted it in. I remember running meatlines in the sound (still have one that I never use but has memories). Extremely effective way of fishing, but no fun, just hooking fish and ratcheting them in. By time I was able to get a job, I was able to help with money to my family, and we were able to be more into sportsmanship then simply eating. Was around 83'. I haven't bought a treble since, and in fact instantly take them off any tackle I may have that has them on it.
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  #21  
Old 04-16-2003, 12:19 AM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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ST 69, poor? No you just didn't have any money.

"I grew up poor, and we subsidized our food with fish, seafood, and game meat. I grew up like I wasn't poor though, my family made sure we always had enough to eat, so I never realized I was poor until I got into high school where stupid things mattered. I saw how other kids got everything they wanted and had much nicer clothes. But, in long run, I was much better off and loved much more then they were. "

Heck of a difference. I can remember asking the bus driver in Seattle to lend me less that a quarter to pay the bus fair home from 'downtown.'' Guy put the money in the box; next time I saw him I paid him back. That was back in about 1956, don't know if he 'trusted me' or just wanted to make the till box on the bus balance. But "he" taught me a lesson in trust and honor.

And there is NOTHING else that matters between men/women. Perhaps this is why it went so well when Joan and I moved/built our vineyards in Oregon. Old ground, but 95% of the hundreds of thousands we spent was based on a 'gentlemen's agreement and a handshake.'

EditÚd a lot of this out to keep from sounding like a complete ... many of these folks are still close business associates. It's cool when you call for something and they know your voice ... and the deal is fair to all. And you don't ask the price.

For Aaron, I appreciate all your kindness and hugs; you've far exceeded all/any of my expectations. (And the checks in the mail today)
fae
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2003, 01:11 AM
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Steelheader69 Steelheader69 is offline
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LOL Fred

Yeah, we had no money. LOL. But, I did say I was loved, wasn't that close enough?? I meant having no money in poor you goof. Didn't say I went without, sheesh. Man, you gotta be so liberal nowadays. I may have to pull some of my select flies outta that package for you now. LOL. Just kidding, you'll get full lot.

But, we didn't want, because I was exposed to alot of things that were fairly inexpensive to do. Plus, my Dad tried to make our "food gathering" trips fun. We'd drop crab or shrimp pots while we'd be out salmon fishing. Then go back and check pots periodically. But, it was a 50/50 thing. It was hard growing up with alot of rich kids who had nice cars and clothes. But I'm glad I was raised way I was. I learned the value of a buck (wish my exwife did LOL, I wouldn't be in trouble like I am now) and learned to help the family. Spent too many days splitting wood (didn't have electric or gas heat), and we logged properties to get the wood for our winters. The only way I learned to fly fish was by "borrowing" my dead uncles rod and having to tie my own flies so I'd have some. My flies were terrible, but caught fish back then. LOL, they were tied on octopus hooks. But, now I have a positive income (even with my ex's $50k debt I got stuck with), and try not to put my kids through too much of what I had to. I don't spoil, but I try not to hand them everything.

Last edited by Steelheader69; 04-16-2003 at 01:13 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2003, 10:41 AM
t_richerzhagen t_richerzhagen is offline
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2003, 01:58 PM
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On all of the waters I have fished in N.A. trebles on flies have been verboten. Most places you can only use single hook for trout and salmon. I would only use trebles when allowed and I was definitely going to kill every fish caught. I am against them totally for waters which are primarily wild steelhead, trout, or salmon.

On wild fish waters single barbless hook is the rule that should be enforced to help ensure that fish will have the best chance of survival after being hooked and released.

PM Out
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2003, 02:38 PM
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When I spinner fished (gasp) we would use barbless trebles.

Never had an issue with fish mortality, they were easy to remove and fish stayed stuck rather well.
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