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going to quebec advise please

9K views 60 replies 13 participants last post by  Earle Fletcher 
#1 ·
Hi all i'm off to quebec to fish with a canadian friend for a week in june on a few of the salmon rivers over there.Now i have never fished for salmon at all (only trout and saltwater)my questions are..will i be able to use a single handed 8/9/10 weight or do i need the longer switch rod (spey rod is not really an option)..2nd question what flies should i be looking to tie,any help would be great.....p.s.the rivers are ..(1) riviere Matapédia (2) riviere Cascapédia (3) Petite Cascapédia (4) riviere Bonaventure (5) riviere Dartmouth (6) riviere York.
Thanks
brett

i did post this thread in the uk and got some great help from some of the forum guys,but i got told this is the best place to get help
 
#2 ·
I will comment only on the rivers I have fished and fly patterns that produced for me.

Matapedia - Green Highlander, Black Dose, Rusty Rat, riffled hitched Green Butt and various Bomber dry flies

York - Rusty Rat, Silver Rat, Tiger Ghost, Ally's Shrimp, riffled hitched Green Butt and various Bomber dry flies

Darthmouth - Rusty Rat, Blue Rat, Tiger Ghost, Ally's Shrimp, riffled hitched Green Butt and various Bomber dry flies.

There are at least a 100 other patterns that will work. It's a matter of being at the right place at the right time.

Any one of the rods you mentioned will be OK. Use the one you cast the best.

You will need at lot more time than a week to fish all those rivers. A week on each would be just about right.

Earle Fletcher
 
#3 ·
Earle's suggestions are right on the money.....as usual. If Earle did not release all his fish he would be banned on the Matane :chuckle:

All the flies that Earle mentioned are Gaspe Killers! The size of the fly is also a very important factor, perhaps as important as the pattern itself. But nothing is more important that fishing over fish......as per what Earle stated.

During June, the water is usually on the high side, so bigger flies are in order such as #2s to #6s. You should have a variety of the patterns that Earle mentioned in these sizes. You do not need every pattern tied in every size. You just need some patterns tied larger than other patterns. Muddler minnows also account for a big share of Salmon. The Green muddler is especially good on the Bonaventure. Muddlers can be tied on long shank 4s and 6s during that time of year and are especially good during high water conditions.

Also, sparsely tied flies usually work much better than the heavier dressed classics. Most productive flies are tied with sparse hair wings. This also is an important factor so whether you purchase or tie your own, make sure that you use sparsely dressed ties. If you do not tie your own, I suggest you purchase flies from the many local Quebec shops. There is a great Orvis shop in the town of Causapscal on the Matepedia. He can give you up to date productive patterns and coordinate the size with the current conditions you will be fishing. Being that this is your first trip, I think this is your best bet.
 
#4 ·
Venture said:
Earle's suggestions are right on the money.....as usual. If Earle did not release all his fish he would be banned on the Matane :chuckle:

All the flies that Earle mentioned are Gaspe Killers! The size of the fly is also a very important factor, perhaps as important as the pattern itself. But nothing is more important that fishing over fish......as per what Earle stated.

During June, the water is usually on the high side, so bigger flies are in order such as #2s to #6s. You should have a variety of the patterns that Earle mentioned in these sizes. You do not need every pattern tied in every size. You just need some patterns tied larger than other patterns. Muddler minnows also account for a big share of Salmon. The Green muddler is especially good on the Bonaventure. Muddlers can be tied on long shank 4s and 6s during that time of year and are especially good during high water conditions.

Also, sparsely tied flies usually work much better than the heavier dressed classics. Most productive flies are tied with sparse hair wings. This also is an important factor so whether you purchase or tie your own, make sure that you use sparsely dressed ties. If you do not tie your own, I suggest you purchase flies from the many local Quebec shops. There is a great Orvis shop in the town of Causapscal on the Matepedia. He can give you up to date productive patterns and coordinate the size with the current conditions you will be fishing. Being that this is your first trip, I think this is your best bet.
Venture

Do you also use sparsely tied flies in high water condition like you would usualy encounters in early June. I have always had succes with fuller patterns in high water condition with brighter colours to punch through the dirtier water we encounter in early season fishing. High water big flies or is High water big skinny flies :tongue:

Jocelin

Here are my favorite high water flies for early season SAUMON

Spate fly chartreuse



Sunray shadow rabbit strip

This one I have good success in the later part of the day until dark (when the water is dirtier I will change the white bucktail to green or even blue



Garry Dog Long Tail



Jocelin
 
#5 ·
The only one of those rivers where you'll be likely to use the bomber in June is the Petite. At least, I've never done so on any of the others. On some of those rivers you'll also want to have a Picasse, Pompier, Black and/or Green Stonefly, Nighthawk, Orange Blossom, Green Widow, John Olin, and Sugerman Shrimp. My guess is depending upon fish reports and water levels you'll concentrate on one of the three sections that contain the waters you've listed. Land's End has the York and Dartmouth, Middle Gaspé has the Grand and Petite Cascapedia as well as the Bonnie. And then the Matapedia on the West end. Enjoy! These can all be superb rivers if the water is right and the fish are running in June.
 
#7 ·
Jocelin,

I prefer sparse flies on Gaspe Waters even when the water is on the high side. I just have more confidence with sparse flies. If the water is high and dirty, I prefer large bright flies or large muddlers. To me, a large fly bright fly tied sparsely looks better than an overdressed fly. But I could be dead wrong.

My favorite summer flies.....from #6s to #12s doubles and singles are all tied sparsely. I used to overdress my patterns. I find that most illustrations in pattern books are tied too heavily. I used to tie my own flies heavier, but now I find that my success is much better if the flies are tied slightly smaller on the hook, and slightly sparse in all sizes.

A great tip I had last year was using bright red nail polished heads on some of my patterns. One of the patterns was a bastard pattern with a two tone green butt.......sparse short black wing, and bright red head with nail polish. A few of my fish last year really liked that pattern.

Howie
 
#8 ·
Howie

Thanks for your response your honesty is very appreciated

Myself the only time I fish heavier dressed flies here on the noth shore is when the water is high and dirty or dirtier than normal. Here the water in never to clear its always tea coloured do to the tannin runnof.

When levels are normal i always fish sparsely tied flies also and in smaler sizes. I guess the differense will is the clearer water in Gaspe the flies dont have to be to heavely dressed compared to this side of the Big St LAurence.

The reason I think that most of all the tying book show flies that are dressed with so much stuff is probably to helf the inexperienced tier to better see the material and their layout on the conception of the fly.

Jocelin
 
#9 ·
I know some very successful fisherman on the Matane who almost exclusively use large muddlers when the water is high and brown. They swear by it. These flies are usually tied sparsely on #2, 3X long streamer hooks.

I know guys that swear that redish flies work best when the high water starts to clearing and turns from brown to redish before becoming clear. That usually lasts for a day or so. Red Rats and Rusty Rats are the favorites for these guys.

Other than that, we each have our favorites during normal summer conditions. Mine is a small Peltie tied short and sparse on either a single or double. This is a killer. But the most popular fly by far on this river is the green butt........but somehow I prefer the peltie. Not too many takers refuse it if tied sparsely and tied on the smallish side.
 
#10 ·
Wow ... There are a lot of great opinions expressed here. You can't go wrong with any of this advice.

The Gaspe rivers (York, Dart, Petite, Bonny - at least) usually run clear - even in early-mid June. Clear on these rivers can mean VERY clear ... fish can be completely visible in many of the pools. As well these rivers run green - really green. This is not an algal stain - it's not cloudy water. I believe it's due to the copper deposits in the bedrock along the spine of the Peninsula. The fishing result of this phenomena is that nearly everybody who fishes these rivers carries flies with some-lots of green in them. Lots of the flies mentioned above classify, but you can do well with nearly any variety of sparse green salmon fly on most of the Gaspe rivers.

One other thing ... I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the Green Machine in any of its variations, or brown Buck Bugs. While not being 'classics' of the salmon tiers art, they are heavily fished on many Canadian salmon rivers. This is because they are as close to 'reliable' as any salmon fly can be - particularly if the water is low. Low water (relatively speaking) is a real possibility on these rivers anytime after mid-June. I wouldn't go to a Gaspe river without a supply of small clipped-deer-hair 'bugs'.

That's my $0.02 worth ... enjoy your trip!

Jim Corrigan
 
#12 ·
Weighted flies or weighted tubes are illegal on the Gaspe Rivers. You cannot have any in your possession while on these rivers.

Sinking lines and sinking heads are extremely frowned upon and not used by the sport fisherman as opposed to the poacher. Forget the thought. The rivers all can be fished properly with floating lines and long leaders.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Bugman said:
Wow ... There are a lot of great opinions expressed here. You can't go wrong with any of this advice.

The Gaspe rivers (York, Dart, Petite, Bonny - at least) usually run clear - even in early-mid June. Clear on these rivers can mean VERY clear ... fish can be completely visible in many of the pools. As well these rivers run green - really green. This is not an algal stain - it's not cloudy water. I believe it's due to the copper deposits in the bedrock along the spine of the Peninsula. The fishing result of this phenomena is that nearly everybody who fishes these rivers carries flies with some-lots of green in them. Lots of the flies mentioned above classify, but you can do well with nearly any variety of sparse green salmon fly on most of the Gaspe rivers.

One other thing ... I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the Green Machine in any of its variations, or brown Buck Bugs. While not being 'classics' of the salmon tiers art, they are heavily fished on many Canadian salmon rivers. This is because they are as close to 'reliable' as any salmon fly can be - particularly if the water is low. Low water (relatively speaking) is a real possibility on these rivers anytime after mid-June. I wouldn't go to a Gaspe river without a supply of small clipped-deer-hair 'bugs'.

That's my $0.02 worth ... enjoy your trip!

Jim Corrigan
Jim

I beleive Brett will be fishing in Quebec on the first week of June ( i read this on another site he posted for info)

Loved your post lost of good info

Jocelin
 
#14 ·
well me and my buddy from quebec are all booked now with ann from quebec sporting.10th of june is our start date,and from all the information from you guy's have given me my head is spinning!!!i'm going to take all your advise and start tying some of the fly's you recommend..one other question ''BUGS'' are they about at this time of year,because they love me

brett
 
#15 ·
By "BUGS" I assume you're not referring to Green Machines or other Buck Bugs! Insects of the other variety can be an issue, but I haven't been bothered by them very often. The dreaded black fly has rarely been an issue for me when fishing in June. Sometimes mosquitos have been, but a lot of that depends upon how much precip they get the couple of weeks before you arrive. Bring a good DEET product, or buy some Watson's locally and you'll do OK.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Brett
Your in excellent hands with Ann. We'll be just ahead of ya ,finishing up to the
7th after fishing the York for 8 days and we generally stay in daily contact with her, so at least you'll know which flies haven't been producing LOL :-O . Generally what works on the York/barfmouth/the John will work on the other rivers as you make your way around to the Matapedia (been there done that AND IMHO ) As for which flies ? I'll PM you on that regard.Just make sure to bring some of your Brit. flies. Friend of mine did quite well 2 yrs back on the Petite and then the Grande Cascapedia on VERY large Snaelda's while yours truly was doing just slightly better on the Petite ( I doesn't afford the big $$$$ waters)with small #10's and 12's .
To Jim
A geologist once told me the reason for the very clear waters was due to the Granite deposits ,I asked him "HUH?" and he went into a rather detailed answer which I promptely forgot .
Cheers
 
#17 ·
Salar-1 said:
Brett
Your in excellent hands with Ann. We'll be just ahead of ya ,finishing up on the
7th after fishing the York for 8 days and we generally stay in daily contact with her, so at least you'll know which flies haven't been producing LOL :-O . Generally what works on the York/barfmouth/the John will work on the other rivers as you make your way around to the Matapedia (been there done that AND IMHO ) As for which flies ? I'll PM you on that regard.Just make sure to bring some of your Brit. flies. Friend of mine did quite well 2 yrs back on the Petite and then the Grande Cascapedia on VERY large Snaelda's while yours truly was doing just slightly better on the Petite ( I doesn't afford the big $$$$ waters)with small #10's and 12's .
Jim
A geologist once told me the reason for the very clear waters was due to the Granite deposits ,I asked him "HUH?" and he went into a rather detailed answer which I promptely forgot .
Cheers


Jim

thanks for your email,let's hope you have great weeks fishing ahead of us.I will be bringing some of the ''brit'' flys with me and some of my own (got knows what the salmon will make of them) but you never know..if you can PM with some flys that would be great.
regards
brett
 
#19 ·
Jocelin - Thanks for letting me know when Brett will be fishing!

Everybody was responding as if Brett was fishing very early in June, but I didn't see anything in his original message that indicated exactly when he would be on the rivers. Since there was lots of good advice about fishing these rivers in high-water conditions, I thought I'd add a few comments in case he was coming later in the month.

Acknowledging that he'll be there quite early in June, there are some very slow spots on the Gaspe rivers that can be fished with small stuff at any time of the year. The tails of many of the pools run slow and hold fish that can be caught - sometimes! :hihi:

As well, I wouldn't be afraid to try a big bomber over fish lying in clear slowish water on most of the Gaspe rivers - anytime in the season. As a trout angler, Brett would get the thrill of his life if one of the big boys slowly rose to his dry fly. :whoa:

This is a fun thread ... it's been interesting to see some different 'theories' on bringing salmon to a fly under different water conditions. This discussion probably will drive a number of us to the fly tier's bench.

Jim Corrigan
 
#20 ·
Earle Fletcher said:
Brett, you should do well with Ann and her guides. They are the best!

Salar-1, what's this PM BS about your fly recommendations, we all want to know too!

Earle[/QUOTE


Hopefully the PM is to help the british ''greenhorn''get a pull on his line.i can pass on this information at $10 a fly..only jokeing i really do need all the help i can get from all of you guys and the feedback from all of you is fantastic...i will ask again about the bugs though are they about in early june,because i must look like a rump stake to a mozzi

brett
 
#21 ·
Personaly, I would never go fishing at this period of the season without couple streamer Tiger Ghost size 1/0 , 2 and 4, and Saranac Ghost in the same sizes. In fact, I would be more confortable to go fishing at this period of the season only with these 2 flies in the sizes mentioned, rather than with 100 of any other flies without these 2 flies...

Maybe add Magog Smelt in the same sizes
 
#23 ·
Salar36 said:
Personaly, I would never go fishing at this period of the season without couple streamer Tiger Ghost size 1/0 , 2 and 4, and Saranac Ghost in the same sizes. In fact, I would be more confortable to go fishing at this period of the season only with these 2 flies in the sizes mentioned, rather than with 100 of any other flies without these 2 flies...

Maybe add Magog Smelt in the same sizes
Salar36

I also agree with your big fly suggestion and would like your oppinion on why salmon in this time of the year will take those flies before other ones.

Jocelin
 
#24 ·
Jocelin;

Personaly, I usualy use a rule in spring; the colder the water is, the bigger the fly to use will be. So, if I had a general pattern, I would say 3/0 to 1/0 between May 20th to june 1-5 th, 1/0 to # 2 from June 1-5th to mid june, and as the water level drop and warm, the size is going smaller.

Now, some have success with smaller flies, so like everything when talking about salmon, a generalty is not a strict rule.

On the Causapscal, we have caught 6 or 7 fish in May in the last couple years, and none of them with a smaller fly than 1/0. Last spring, on May 28th, fishes were coming on a 1/0, but we needed a big tube 3 inches long to have them to grab the fly. But the conditions change very quickly at this period of the season...
 
#25 ·
Brett
Since Pierre ( salar 36) has "outed" most of the flies.,I'll publically post mine changing his list a wee bit .
In this order .
Magogs - 3/0 and 2/0
Lady Caroline -3/0 and 2/0 (friggin GREAT fly go down in size to # 8's in September)
Picasse- 2/0 and 1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_07/GALLERY/ (click on Picasse)
Causapscal Smelt-1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_06/GALLERY/index.htm ( click on C-Smelt)
Tiger Ghost 1/0 (tye Florescent green floss over top of body so it "lights " up the wing a la Causapscal Smelt)
Ackroyd -1/0
This fly ,the Olive Ouch
http://salarflyswaps.flyfishingns.com/fly3.html
has produced for fishing friends but NOT for yours truly
Cheers
Brian
 
#26 ·
Salar-1 said:
Brett
Since Pierre ( salar 36) has "outed" most of the flies.,I'll publically post mine changing his list a wee bit .
In this order .
Magogs - 3/0 and 2/0
Lady Caroline -3/0 and 2/0 (friggin GREAT fly go down in size to # 8's in September)
Picasse- 2/0 and 1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_07/GALLERY/ (click on Picasse)
Causapscal Smelt-1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_06/GALLERY/index.htm ( click on C-Smelt)
Tiger Ghost 1/0 (tye Florescent green floss over top of body so it "lights " up the wing a la Causapscal Smelt)
Ackroyd -1/0
This fly ,the Olive Ouch
http://salarflyswaps.flyfishingns.com/fly3.html
has produced for fishing friends but NOT for yours truly
Cheers
Brian

Brian thanks thats the best link to the flys so far.how many flys would you tie for a weeks fishing!because i'm a new boy to salmon fishing i have no idea what to take with me,i have ordered my hooks so i,m just going to pic some flys of your list and start tying

cheers
Brett
 
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