Casting in wind - Page 3 - Fly Fishing Forum
Art of Casting Analysis, refinement of the cast

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  #31  
Old 08-17-2006, 06:10 PM
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I'm curious. Are we talking from two different perspectives here? Seems if you're fishing from a boat chances are the wind is either moderate or you are fishing in the lea. If you're shore fishing you may be fishing in wind that will keep the boat at the dock. I use the water haul when chucking QD type lines or when the wind is moderate and driving against the casting shoulder, if appropriate. Basically the water haul is used in lieu of false casts. If the wind is moderate (say 10 to 20 mph) you can get away with one back cast and a shoot, try a second false cast if you're into body piercing. If it's blowing 15 to 30 that return flight of the first backcast might get you, or worse, ding your favorite rod. Time for the salt water backcast. If you're finessing on the flats to sighted fish I tend to face the target and cast across the downwind shoulder (usually with little success).
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  #32  
Old 08-17-2006, 08:53 PM
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Fred,

I don't think we are talking from two different perspectives. I would not say that if you are on a boat that you are not in the wind. There are plenty of days when I am out there in 10-20, sometimes more. I agree that more than one non-water haul backcasts and you are risking the pierce. That was part of my reasoning for suggesting the use of multiple water hauls to get a longer cast out there. I think this is one thing that is better illustrated on the water and personally its something I have seen more need for on the boat. As you and Juro have pointed out when on foot I would just turnaround and use the Sedotti Singapore sling (i.e. fish the back cast placing the butt against your forearm for leverage.)
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  #33  
Old 08-17-2006, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smcdermott
the Sedotti Singapore sling
The WHAT??? He's a hell of a caster but that name is pretty emphatic.

I just call it a backward cast. According to Jaworowski it's called the Barnegat Bay and he claims it's been in use since before we were all born.

Joan Wullf calls it a backhand cast.
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  #34  
Old 08-17-2006, 09:12 PM
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Sorry Juro, I should have placed a wink after that one. He is the first one I ever saw at one of the shows preaching it. Although I think he mentioned its use for distance and not dealing with the wind. In any case its where this young buck first saw it.

Sean
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  #35  
Old 08-17-2006, 09:30 PM
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It doesn't come thru in the post but I was only poking fun at Mark, he is a freak caster (I mean that in a good way)! If he wants to call it the sayonara sling then so be it!

Anyway it really is tough to express the joking around mode on this media.
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  #36  
Old 08-22-2006, 10:03 AM
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The Sayonara Sling is a bit different than a backwards cast - though essentially the same.

The only reason I mention it is because Mark showed me that cast in relation to slowly getting over a broken elbow, back and wrist (by the way learning to cast lefty is easy, but learning to haul with your right hand proved to be nigh-impossible for me.)

The key difference is in how you hold the rod. By bracing the fighting but against you forearm you essentially lockout your wrist add your forearm to the length of the rod. Then you stand sideways to the target, point your right shoulder at it rather than standing backwards. It really makes casting heavy lines that much easier since you are using your upper arm. Added to a water haul you can get some nice distance in a heavy wind.

Made a huge difference for me, not trying to be a smark or anything.
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  #37  
Old 08-22-2006, 10:51 AM
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Per the earlier description, forearm-locking a cast in that manner and the offset stance is what I've always just called a backward cast, by any other name (however that's why the description was provided). I guess I am not ethnically comfortable with Mark's monniker

Here is the above description again FYI:

Quote:
Actually fishing the backcast does not lessen your ability to reach fish, in fact it strengthens your casting because 50% of a flycast is the backcast and being able to drive this backcast makes the forward cast more potent when you switch back.

The body does not have to turn back to target, just shift your casting shoulder to the front and reach across the body a little. Rotate the body a bit (approx 90 from normal toward the other side of the body) keeping the eyes forward.

The key is the keep your knuckles toward the target, thus making it a back(hand) cast. The traditional cast across the body reverses the hand to push with the thumb. The backhand cast does not.

Another secret is to lean the butt of the rod against the inside of the forearm during the stroke to target. This has the effect of really flexing the rod with power that is frankly hard to find on the strong side.

Regardless of how you deal with a crosswind (left hand, cross body, back hand) it's key to keep the path of acceleration true otherwise all the power you apply dissipates into open loops or off-line vectors.

Wind adds tension to the line in flight thus actually helping the fly cast in most cases.


I've found this same technique very useful for my normal backcast (when casting forward) pretty much ever since SWFF raised the bar for casting against the forces of nature.

Several years ago at the North Reading Athletic Center Casting Clave we had a contest involving rolling an archery target across the gym and hitting it with a cast. I volunteered to use my backcast for the contest and because of the forearm lock nailed the target easily. It really does boost the energy when the lower portion of the blank can be loaded.

Earlier after talking to my brother (eye surgeon) about injury I posted on another site about this technique and was met with quite a lot of resistance to the idea of fishing the back cast. Of course that was when there was only one website discussing striper flyfishing and that only part-time. It was also a time when a crosswind on the beach meant you could hear a chorus of "whack! smack! and OUCH!".

The northeast flyfisher has come a long way in terms of casting safety as I see it. You rarely see people hitting themselves anymore.
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  #38  
Old 08-27-2006, 10:55 AM
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Jim.
I knew we should have made our "Fly Casting in a Cyclone" video when we had the chance. It would have made a great follow up to the rimfly challenge and an excellent double feature when combined with "Fly Tying in a Cyclone with Jim Simms".
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  #39  
Old 08-27-2006, 01:28 PM
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True story. During a trip in April to Weipa, Australia, Basses (Silas Maitland), Matt Fender, and myself were expecting a direct hit from a Category 5 hurricane (cyclone). It was supposed to hit about 3 a.m. Our condo (read mobile home) was the hangout that night for one of the guides in the area (Nat Bromhead), Anthony Gomes, local flyfishing expert, and Jacko, Queensland distance casting champion. With lots of fresh tuna, and Four X beer, we decided to get pissed and wait out the cyclone. In the wee hours of the morning, we tied braided leaders and refined our distance casting while keeping close tabs on the path of the cyclone. Our intent was to do a video of both flycasting and flytying in a cyclone. We shot some of the footage, but guess drinking and serious videography don't mix.

The cyclone eventually went south of us. Silas is now a great distance caster!
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  #40  
Old 05-02-2007, 05:45 PM
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Goofy Casting...

Thought I'd chime in on the whole subject of learning to cast with the "off hand". Of course, it goes without saying that this is a good way of defeating a contrary breeze, and I won't really get into other methods for that here... though that's actually the topic of this post.

I taught myself to cast lefty last year, in about 2 half-hour sessions. Now, I'm no great caster, nor a particularly quick study. I also don't profess to tremendous accuracy with that hand, but it's typically enough to get the job done... and keep from getting whacked by the fly.

I used a version of Lefty Kreh's teaching method that breaks the cast down into separate parts that we can see. He uses this to teach the double-haul, but it works just as well to learn to cast (with either hand). Basically you cast totally side-arm, with the rod parallel to the water. Get out about 30 ft of line in front of you. Sweep the rod back and gradually accelerate until the sudden stop at the end. Now, instead of trying to go directly into the forward cast, let the line drop to the ground. Do the same thing in the opposite direction, again letting the line fall to the ground after the cast. Ideally the line should unroll and lay out straight, with no hook or bend or waves.

In practice it takes a while to get the timing right so the first few casts are awful. However, by watching what happens to the line at the end of each cast, it's amazing how quickly our brains and hands adjust to correct the mistakes. And, if we get confused we can study the movements of our good casting hand.

Make sure you're doing a couple key things if you try this.
1) The rod should be almost totally parallel to the water/ground.
2) Let the line fall to the ground after each section of the cast - both forward and backward.
3) Slow everything down. The slower you do this, the better, and the more you'll learn from each cast.

After a while you'll feel you've got the timing down; try keeping the line in the air for a few false casts. An important note here: once you get the feel of this, don't try keeping the line in the air for a dozen false casts. If you do your hand and arm will naturally tire after the first few casts (especially with the off hand). Once the hand tires it loses it's finess and you'll actually end up practicing poor technique about half the casts. You don't learn to shoot a basketball by starting with three-pointers. Try to limit yourself to 3-4 false casts then let the line fall again. This gives your hand a chance to rest and allows you to assess the quality of the final cast.

I could go further with this. One of the biggest mistakes beginners make when trying to teach themselves to cast is making too many false casts. Their hands tire and they end up frustrated at the end of the session when they could leave feeling they've made progress. The other mistake they make is not practicing for the right amount of time. In this case, too much is just as bad as too little. This has to do with the way we train our muscles. I've heard it said that optimum practice time is 15-20 minutes, though I have no actual evidence to back this up (merely heresay and conjecture... are those are kinds of evidence?). Anyways, the main point the author was making was that our brains and muscles need repetition in order to form the 'habit' of a new physical task. However, the muscles tire quickly and then instead of training new muscles to do a new task, we fall back on the old muscles which perform the new task inefficiently. Basically if we practice for too long we end up learning the wrong series of muscle movements but if we don't practice enough, we have to practically start over next time. Above all, if you don't know how to cast properly, get some instruction (DVD, Books, Magazine, Instructor). Like someone once said, practices doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent.

Good luck.
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