beginer , Line length question, - Fly Fishing Forum
Art of Casting Analysis, refinement of the cast

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  #1  
Old 12-20-2004, 08:51 PM
odin909 odin909 is offline
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Question beginer , Line length question,

Hey guys

Pretty new to fly fishing, been doing alot of practice on lawn, only been in the water about 5 times.

I have 1 question, may sound stupid, but gotta ask it.

When, you see a fish or have a spot you wanna cast, and its close, close enough for just leader and tippet cast, no fly line. Do you cast in reg way ? will it cast right with no fly line , just upper section?

Is there a certain type of cast for this sitiuation?

I look forward to all replies

thanx guys
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2004, 05:50 PM
fishingbum fishingbum is offline
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don't know the answer to your question as my presence seems to send fish further away than that. it be weird to hook a fish so close, tho.

i do remember i was on the yampa once and saw a good 16-incher holding about eight or nine feet from where i was standing so i let my fly drift directly above it with no success. it seemed to be dead since it wasn't wiggling around so i poked it with the tip of my rod and it slowly swam away. it ended up being a white sucker so no big deal.
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Old 12-22-2004, 12:35 AM
salt dog salt dog is offline
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Line length question,

Odin, a good question, one that took me a while to learn the full implications of, and certainly one that touches upon a deep subject.

Essentially, you need the weight of the fly line to load (bend) the rod which throws the leader and fly at the fish as it springs back, at least on a "regular" cast.

The Yakima River presents situations like that during spring hatches, with fish rising steadily through low visibility water not more than 10 - 15 feet from the boat, but requiring perfect dead drift presentations. A problem develops if you have a "faster" rod that requires a minimum of 20 ++ feet of line in the air to load the rod. You would be better off with a much slower or flexible (and shorter) rod that loads more easily on shorter line.

The bottom line is that you get the fly out to the fish any way you can, and you need to experiment with every way possible to do that. On a river, you can simply slap the fly and leader down into the river upstream from the fish and let it drift down to the fish. Another way would be to pinch the fly between your fingers while exerting pressure on the rod tip to bend it in the direction you want the fly to go, then let go of the fly, flinging the fly forward, like a bow and arrow. This works well for lake or small stream application when trying to get underneath or between foliage when you can't false cast. Hope that helps.
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:50 PM
odin909 odin909 is offline
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hey

Thanx for the replies guys.

I get what you guys are saying!!

I was trying to remember the bow and arrow cast, thankx for reminding me.

I gues i should use my 6 1/2 ft rod when i know im gonna encounter fishing like that. Thats what your saying right? The shorter rod , will make a shorter line to cast?

thanx for the replies guys.

Trying to get out of the beginer ranks!!!
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Old 12-22-2004, 10:41 PM
Jackster1 Jackster1 is offline
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The right leader might help in your situation. A furled leader made of thread will turn over just like a fly line. Poly-Leaders do too but they might be a little 'splashy' for that close-in work. Even the right mono leader will work, either knotless or knotted, as long as you follow the advise of the above posts.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:02 PM
salt dog salt dog is offline
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odin,

the shorter rod will probably be more fexible (but not necessarily), the question is really about how flexible the rod is, as opposed to using a rod that is stiff, regardless of the length of the rod. A shorter rod is normally prescribed for conditions you find in small streams, with lots of brush and trees on the banks, and gives you better control of your casts. A shorter rod that is very flexible generally is going to be best for close in precision casts, assuming it is balanced with a fly line and appropriate leader to turn over the fly as pointed out by Jackster. Although I spend a lot of time searching out steelhead and salmon, the challenge of hunting fish in secluded small freestone streams requiring precise casts with light equipment has always been one of my favorites. Sometimes the key will be to re-position yourself to enable you to make the cast with the equipment that you have. On occassion, that might mean moving to take advantage of a hole in the canopy of trees overhead to allow you to backcast up through the hole then straighten out the forward cast to deliver your fly. Lots of fun.
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:42 PM
bluegillbob bluegillbob is offline
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Hi Oden!

Here's a true statement : if you can see the fish, they can see you. LM bass do not spook easily; I've had 24" bass swim past me while wading. Trout on the other hand, can be easily spooked.

I don't like to get too close while casting to fish. Sometimes I will cast 40-50 ft from them; I like the challenge of casting to them.

Fish can also see your profile. I have spooked fish from over 100 feet away; I was walking along a ridge overlooking the lake, and the bass near the shore made ripples as they swam toward deeper water.
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Old 12-26-2004, 08:38 PM
odin909 odin909 is offline
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hey

Thanks again for all the replies!

1 more question, When they say, have out 20 feet of line, do they mean Fly line and leader together? Or 20 feet of , fly line, not including leader?


Just wondering guys, if anyone knows, would help

thankkx again

Happy New Year
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Old 12-26-2004, 10:29 PM
bluegillbob bluegillbob is offline
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Smile

Hi Odin!

When someone tells me "20 feet of line" I interpret that as "20 feet of flyline." A leader can change the lenght drastically. I have thrown leaders as short as 2 feet, to leaders as long as 7 feet. Some people have thrown 12 foot leaders to spooky trout.

Keep those questions coming!
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:27 AM
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teflon_jones teflon_jones is offline
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In my experience, any fish that will let you get that close to it isn't going to bite anything you throw at it. The only exception I can really think of is sunfish in the shallows. They seem to have a higher spook tolerance, or maybe their eyesight just stinks. But of course I cast to anything that gets that close anyway because there are exceptions, such as last summer when I was wading a local reservoir. I had stopped to change flies, and was all thumbs and it was taking me forever to tie the new fly on. After about 5 minutes of standing absolutely still, I see a pair of 4-5 lb largemouth bass swim by 25 feet away from me.

As for the "feet of line" question, I don't usually hear a question or statement phrased that way. For instance, people don't say "You need to be able to cast 40 feet of line to catch bonefish." They simply say "You need to be able to cast 40 feet." But if somebody were to ask me, I'd probably err towards including some of my leader in the measurement. But I always use 12 ft leaders, which is a lot longer than most people, so if I'm casting 40 feet of fly line then I'm actually casting 52 feet, a significant difference!
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:48 AM
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Rick J Rick J is offline
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I have had fish that close on several occasions while fishing spring creeks such that a 9 foot rod extended was too far and extended over the fish and I have actually hooked a few of them when they are feeding hard on a hatch or spinner fall.

If you stop the rod tip, it will cast the leader - will not be much load in the rod but it can be done just need to stop the rod hard. Try a very short fast forward stroke with an abrupt stop, casting off the rod tip and this should help
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:31 PM
FKrow FKrow is offline
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Rick J,
I agree completely, just use the normaly speed-up-and-stop with the rod tip and you can cast 9ft of leader with a 8wt or 9wt rod. The rod must flex only enough to cast the very light leader however, the rod has mass and that will cause a flex or load of the rod and if you stop quickly the rod will unload and launch the leader.

Most of us do the wiggle test to flex a rod in the FF shop, this is all we need to cast a leader with almost any rod. I find it easier to cast with more side arm when casting very short amounts of line or only the leader. Short rod path (short stroke) and quick speed-up-and-stop,,,,,a little practice and it will become easy.

Regards,
Fred Krow
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