Fish counts for the Gaspe rivers? - Fly Fishing Forum
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Old 10-10-2007, 03:24 PM
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Fontinalis Fontinalis is offline
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Fish counts for the Gaspe rivers?

I haven't been able to dig up the final counts for the Gaspe rivers.
Anybody point me towards the data or relay the info here?

I assume they are fairly dismal numbers, but am curious.

Thanks!
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Old 10-12-2007, 03:47 PM
Canadianflyfish Canadianflyfish is offline
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York Count

York river count was 155 grilse and 846 adult salmon for a total of 1001. Whitehouse gate went down with the high river in July so some salmon would be in the upper reaches of the river and not counted.

Final salmon count on the York river on September 19, 2006 with a total of 1058 salmon and 194 grilse counted for a total of 1252.
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Old 10-13-2007, 08:29 AM
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R u interested in all , or just the three ZEC Gaspé rivers ?
Matane 2745 !!!!!
Patapedia around 300
Rimouski 500 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonaventure around 800 (should be adjusted ,due to the ton of fish above E ,that are not habitually include in the count )
Petite around 400
Grande Cascapedia around 700
The fish barrier on the Dartmouth also washed out
At least the Whitehouse barrier washout FINALLY stopped that carnival idiotic "fishing in an aquarium "
Cheers
Brian
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:49 AM
billg billg is offline
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As far as the counts go on the 3 Gaspe rivers ony 2 were done completely; the York and St. Jean. The Dartmouth would have required walking the length of the river (from just below the lake) because there was not enough water to canoe and/or swim the river. Thus, that count is not inclusive of the entire run.

The York, by the way, was counted way, way upriver and that count is complete (according to the Director of the zec; he showed me the count on Sept 27th. Bottom line there is simple: the run of adult salmon was down by 25% year over year. Equally disturbing was the grilse count which dropped by 25%. Both of these point to a poor year next year; if the number of 2 sea winter salmon dropped that means the 15-40lb salmon (multiple spawners) will be low next year AS WILL the 2 sea winter fish. I get no joy out of saying that because it affects everyone, including my clients.

I never saw the final count on the St. Jean (on paper) but the numbers I was given by guardians and the Director show a large drop there as well.

I am not sure if Brian is right about tons of fish in the sanctuary of the Bonnie; there are certainly fish there but no one saw tons heading upstream this season.

Petite Cas is probably down 40% and the Grande Cas about 70% year over year. For many (not all) rivers this was a very bad year in terms of salmon runs (I have heard this about European rivers as well) and the low grilse runs do not give great signs for next year.

I only wish the river managers on the rivers where the runs declined sharply this year (and which saw low returns of grilse) would proacitvely manage their rivers and go C&R for at least next year (5 years would be great but in Quebec that is asking for a miracle). Unfortunately, the desire to manage a kill fishery and to maximize revenue (and to pay for ill-conceived projects like the Taj Mahal) places the salmon somewhere down on the list of immediate priorities. That said, I head the Bonnie will be C&R at the beginning of the season. That is a needed change; a better change would be an entire year of C&R but it is a good first step.

By the way, North Shore Quebec Rives did get good runs of salmon from what I have heard. Why such poor runs elsewhere? Who knows. I asked a director of the ASF and no one is for certain; there is a hope that more fish are yet to enter the rivers but I am not subscribing to that theory as the river temps and conditions were ideal for the better part of the entire season. It was the best June, July, and August in terms of water levels and temps that we have seen in seveal years.

Bill Greiner
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Old 10-15-2007, 03:18 PM
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Fontinalis Fontinalis is offline
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I know for a fact that many Gaspe anglers and guides read this board constantly, but I'm disappointed that not many post, especially to talk about a serious issue like the one we're facing from this year's runs.
I know that not many lodge owners/guides and outfitters want to scare away potential clients by talking about low runs in a public forum, but unless something is done about it (like instituting more C&R, which I know in Quebec is like pi$$ing into the wind - I know, I lived there for 13 years), the situation isn't likely to improve.
Any theories floated out there yet for the cause? Seems strange to me that both grilse and 2 year fish are down this year. The optimist in me wants to believe that a number of the fish delayed by sea ice simply elected to not spawn this year, and they'll show up next year. Probably wishful thinking though.
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:20 PM
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Hello Fontinalis,

I can say that for myself, I am (still) waiting to see a copy of the counts.
I was at the Zec office at the end of the season and they had no confirmed or written numbers to give me then. (That was October 1)
We all know the gates fell on all three rivers, so it will be difficult to get an exact estimate.
We fished over fish right through September 30th.
Again, Petit Sauimon, in sector 1 was holding fresh fish (small and big)..about 30 fish ..September 30th!!
Sector 4 (Gros Saumon) ..I was guiding there with another guide, and we could see
very large fish,,,(silver) which I thought should have been in the river in early June.
Go Figure,...it was weird year.
As soon as I hear from the Zec, I'll let you know my findings, but then again, it will be an approximate count!!
Is there a pattern?? Some say every 7 years etc... Wish I knew!!

There's good years and bad years, fishing is fishing.... !!

Me too, I wonder, like you..."that a number of the fish delayed by sea ice simply elected to not spawn this year, and they'll show up next year".

We'll see what happens next season....maybe we are right!!!!

Cheers

Ann


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  #7  
Old 10-16-2007, 05:07 PM
Salar36 Salar36 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salar-1
R u interested in all , or just the three ZEC Gaspé rivers ?
Matane 2745 !!!!!
Patapedia around 300
Rimouski 500 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonaventure around 800 (should be adjusted ,due to the ton of fish above E ,that are not habitually include in the count )
Petite around 400
Grande Cascapedia around 700
The fish barrier on the Dartmouth also washed out
At least the Whitehouse barrier washout FINALLY stopped that carnival idiotic "fishing in an aquarium "
Cheers
Brian
Brian, Patapedia is for sure over 300, since they had more than that only in Fork at the mid season count. They were in 500 range on July 31st, if the usual pattern is there, it should be around 800-900.

For the Matapedia, the count was in the 1300 MSW range in low visibility condition, sow 1300 is a minimal estimation. But in the Matapedia and Patapedia, very few grilse which is a major concern for next year. Globaly, the Restigouche watershed seems to be not that bad compared with the Baie des Chaleurs rivers, like Grand Cascapedia and Bonnie

On the St Lawrence side, it is around the average everywhere, for both MSW and grilses. Regarding the Matane, you must add 118 fish to the final count -fish caught bellow the dam-, so the total number is 2871. With around 1300 grilses, there is no concern there for next year. Same thing for Rimouski, with more than 500 fish (for the first time), including arond 375 grilses. But in this case, the fact they are still under a stocking programm change the reality.

Sagenay and North Shore are also in good shape

Regarding Bill's sugegstion, I would have another one; open water everywhere with no access fees and catch and release for all MSW. So no more conflict about who will get which water, no more concern about who is the best or the worst management, and equality of chances in access for everybody
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Old 10-16-2007, 05:30 PM
billg billg is offline
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Pierre:

Interesting suggestion. No access fees for anyone would mean that the Government (Quebec taxpayers) would have to subsidize the costs of protection, access (roads, trails), infrastructure, etc. Do you think they would be up for those costs? I have no idea about the total cost of such an undertaking but I would suspect it would be several million dollars.

Here is a counter proposal:

Catch and release for all MSW as you suggest. Mandatory outfitting or guiding for non-residents (there is a moratorium for new outfitting liceneses and the same could be done for authorizations of commerce which the LEGAL guides need to obtain). No commercial enterprise (outfitter or guide service) could have more than 2 rods per river in a limited zone per day (there would be no limit as to how many rods could be sent by that business to open waters). This would reduce non-resident pressure on rivers and ensure that most of the limited zones would be available to residents (there could be an opportunity for these businesses to pick up unused limited zone rods the day of fishing that were not bought by residents in the 48 hour draw to ensure no lost revenue). Further, it would allow businesses to offer fishing in controlled (limited access) zones for a certain number of customers in order to charge a rate that ensures a viable business and the employment that results. These rods could be part of the 20% rule or could be obtained thru draws (the current draw system, in my opinion, needs to be reformed to 1 card for 1 angler).

Net result; no large, wild salmon being killed. Priority access for resident anglers. A place (albeit not a large place) for commercial operations who provide jobs and revenue for the economies, and an opportunity for the rivers to finance themselves without taxpayer subsidies.

The best way to eliminate foolish mamagers is to have their members vote them out if they end up either destroying the resource or bankrupting the organization over foolish plans.

Bill Greiner
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Old 10-16-2007, 05:48 PM
Salar36 Salar36 is offline
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"Interesting suggestion. No access fees for anyone would mean that the Government (Quebec taxpayers) would have to subsidize the costs of protection, access (roads, trails), infrastructure, etc. Do you think they would be up for those costs? I have no idea about the total cost of such an undertaking but I would suspect it would be several million dollars."

Let's see couple things. Acces road are, in the major part, already paid by the government. No revenu from the ZEC pay for the roads in most fo the rivers.

Protection now. Except for the place where there is a gate, could you please tell me how many poachers has been arrested in the last 20 years with the protection from ZECs? I am confident for number lower than 10, for all ZECS in the province. Personaly, I have always considered anglers are the best protectors, and we had couple very good example in the last couple years ont he Matane and Matapedia. Infrastructure now. Which part of your access fee goes for infratructure? Around nothing! Most of what you see have been paid by programm!!! And having a pic nic table might be funny, but it will not stop me to go fishing.

Basicaly, the model based on ZEC and Wildflife reserve has always been justified to control the access based primary on a conservation concern. If there is no kill, there no concern no? (or less) So why having a heavy management structure ion that situation. And on an economic standpoint, what is the best, 100 people spending 100$ per day in the area, or 40 people spending 100 $ per day in the area and 50$ for the ZEC? Outfitters and gudie will anyway have bussiness from people looking for all included services, exactly like on the Margaree. People looking for more "elitic" package will always have the north shore and Ungava outfitters available


So let's go to C & R everywhere, open water everywhere, and let's all folks fishing , having fun and promote conservation and species protection
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:07 AM
GaspeSalmonBum GaspeSalmonBum is offline
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testing testing
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2007, 09:22 AM
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Fontinalis Fontinalis is offline
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'Frozil' might be referring to anchor ice on the river bed.

Having previously only driven into Gaspe via various routes, I saw some of the destruction - bare hillsides, Murdochville, etc, but only last year when I flew in and out on clear days did I really get an appreciation for how bad the situation is. Gaspe is as despoiled as any part of Quebec that I've seen save for a few nasty mining towns like Schefferville.

Incredibly sad, and defefinitely has to be a contributing factor to the lack of recovery in runs since the netting buy-out. For sure there are other factors, but they alll add up.
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:36 PM
Salmosalar! Salmosalar! is offline
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Hi!

Pierre mean frazil ice. Frazil ice is a collection of loose, randomly oriented needle-shaped ice crystals in water. It resembles slush and has the appearance of being slightly oily when seen on the surface of water.

Salmosalar!
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