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Old 05-24-2007, 05:26 PM
rankinstein rankinstein is offline
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Question about nail knot

Hello I know these knot questions come up over and over again.I fish mainly for Atlantics and use a 30 lb. butt section.I insert a needle up through the end of the flyline and heat the needle a little so the hole stays open.I shave the end of the maxima with a razor so it threads up through the hole.(I got that from this site.Then comes the tricky part.I make the five wraps insert the leader up through the tube and when I go to pull tight the wraps are never uniform.This part to me is like trying to pick flyshit out of pepper with boxing gloves on.I have that other miracle tool,must be a lot of brass in India!!My dilemma is how to I get these blasted wraps to come uniform thanks Rod
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:15 PM
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Use a double-ended doll needle instead of those fancy nail knot tools. $2 at Maries sewing centers.

THis allows you to make the wraps perfectly and then thread the line thru the eye of the needle, then pull the needle out. The wraps are never disturbed thru the whole process.

The double-eye lets you snap it onto a clip for your vest.

I've been doing this method for years and don't think it can be bettered, personally.
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:23 PM
rankinstein rankinstein is offline
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Thanks Juro that makes a lot more sense you can keep your eye on the wraps I will have to get some tomorrow
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:33 PM
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I forgot to add...

the secret to tightening a nail knot is that pulling one end tightens the opposite set of wraps.


So pull the tag to tighten the wraps near the leader, then pull the leader to tighten the wraps on the line side, alternating if necessary and using the fingernails to correct if needed.

I never bother threading the leader thru the line, it will probably affect the tightening of the wraps on the line side (dunno).

Another option I like is the epoxy splice Tony Gades showed me. Strip the coating, push the leader butt into the core and up inside the coating (bulge will appear) then a drop of zap a gap. No knot at all.

Again with the needle this is rarely necessary and it's so thin it's never in the way on the vest or chestpack.

I wear a Morning Star lanyard with one on a clip along with clippers (.99 cent drug store clippers with bead chain removed - I use the bead chain for bonefish fly eyes)
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:55 AM
BigDave BigDave is offline
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I tie nail knots, not needle-knail knots, but since the premise is the same, I will share what I have found:

I don't like the tie fast tool but some manufacturers make a set of nippers with a small nail knot tool that I find works very well. It only works if you remember to keep tension on the leader end of the mono, pressed onto the tool with your thumb (left hand) and pull the tag end slowly with a pair of pliers (right hand) to constrict the knot and pull it off of the tool and onto the fly line.

If you do this the wraps will always come out in a perfect barrell before you cinch it down all the way. It works even with 45# hard mono. You can make sure all wraps are aligned and move the fly line around inside the barrel until perfect and then tighten it up with the leader end wrapped around your palm (LH) and a pair of pliers on the tag (RH).

I struggled with it as well until a friend showed me to keep the leader tight between the tool and your thumb. Then a light went on.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-25-2007, 11:40 AM
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You can try doubling up the fly line to make a channel to feed the leader back through. It works every time and no need for tools.

1. Fold fly line over
2. Make wraps very tight around flyline
3. Slide leader back through the channel between the doubled up fly line
4. Slide doubled up part of fly line out
5. Knot should already be very tight but pull tight a little more

I struggled with nail knots forever until I discovered this method. Now I can do twelve wrap knots that are perfectly alligned on the first try every time.
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:08 PM
Bob Pauli Bob Pauli is offline
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Number of wraps

What is the largerst number of wraps for a secure nail knot for:
- trout
- anadramous
- salt water bigguns

Or do you use the same number for wraps for every nail knot?
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:54 PM
BigDave BigDave is offline
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Depends on the diameter of the leader butt section but I go with 5-7 wraps for everything.

Nail knot is fine for most bass n' blues but for bigger more powerful fish i would use a double-trap braided loop or whipped loop.
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:57 PM
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Good to hear from you Bob -

I just do 7-8 as a rule for all three - but when you say SW biguns that may depend on whether you mean sw biguns or SW BIGUNS, not sure if a nail knot is always good enough. Certainly stripers but not bluefin tuna.
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Old 06-11-2007, 05:33 PM
Bob Pauli Bob Pauli is offline
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Thanks, Juro and Big Dave. I found myself going with 5 recently, and wondering. 7 it will be.

Juro, the GGACC did a good job this year and decided its Spey O Rama 2008 date comparitively quickly. That being April 18-20, 2008. I sure hope to see you there.
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Old 06-11-2007, 05:45 PM
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Sounds good - I sure missed it!

Those dates look good.
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  #12  
Old 08-19-2007, 08:53 AM
fishinfool fishinfool is offline
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Juro,

Could you post a pic of the needle? I can't seem to picture it and don't understand what application would call for eyes on both ends like that. I would love it if you could supply some manufacturer info so I can try to chase one down here in Colorado.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

John
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