I'm going to get this one wet next week - Fly Fishing Forum
>> Archive: Salmon & Steelhead Flies Spey flies to mixed wings, new innovations

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-28-2005, 09:46 AM
Shaq Shaq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain, NY
Posts: 146
I'm going to get this one wet next week

The Gardner

Thank you to Charlie for making this fly possible.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	img4361878ad9d7c.jpg
Views:	671
Size:	42.5 KB
ID:	5084  

Last edited by Shaq; 10-28-2005 at 09:46 AM. Reason: adding text
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #2  
Old 10-28-2005, 01:47 PM
Charlie's Avatar
Charlie Charlie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Great Lakes & Gaspe
Posts: 1,003
Very nice Shaq!

Your flies get better and better every time we see them.

Next week should be good. Water is up across the state and I have been hearing allot about new fish coming in.

Let us know how you do.

Charlie.
__________________
Release-em-Alive!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 10-28-2005, 09:37 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain, NY
Posts: 146
Thanks Charlie, I still owe you one
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 11-15-2005, 06:21 AM
scottishtrout scottishtrout is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dee Don & Deveron
Posts: 3
Ah, a well tied Dee fly tied in the tradition way!

The Gardener a very interesting fly that is often tied incorrectly !

I have seen it with a bright orange hackle tied in at the throat, rather than the correct way of tying in the topping from the yellow in the body - I think that this error creeps in from Price Tannants interpretation of the dressing.

I'm interested in what you have used in the hackle - I think Black heron with a drooping Jungle cock is the way it was originaly designed.

Kelson states the correct dressing but wrongly states that it is "one of Garden of Aberdeens best Dee Flies", everyone now thinks it was invented by William Garden (Aberdeen tackle maker). It was actually invented by the Uncle of James Harper who was the owner of William Browns of Aberdeen from the early 1900s. I have good evidence of this from some research I am doing on the history of William Brown and other Aberdeen Tackle makers - eventually this will be a book.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 11-15-2005, 09:12 AM
Charlie's Avatar
Charlie Charlie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Great Lakes & Gaspe
Posts: 1,003
Some very interesting info scottishtrout,

Please let us all know when your book comes out. It sounds like it should also be very interesting.

Charlie
__________________
Release-em-Alive!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 11-15-2005, 09:40 AM
Shaq Shaq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain, NY
Posts: 146
Scottish trout, I thank you for the info, all I had to work with was some grey heron and I have since acquired some JC. I used a long topping for the body hackle. Unfortunately no steelhead molested this fly in 3 likely runs. In fact no steelhead molested any of my flies in 2 straight trips. I am due...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 11-15-2005, 01:04 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
Pullin' Thread
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 3,346
Like Scottishtrout, I agree, it is nice seeing someone tying a fly in the traditional way. I also never cared for P-T's orange body hackle on this fly and find the topping used as a hackle much more pleasing and harmonious.

Nicely done Shaq.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:32 AM
scottishtrout scottishtrout is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dee Don & Deveron
Posts: 3
As there does seem to be interest in the history of Salmon flies on this forum, I thought I would share a bit more information and take the opportunity to ask a couple of questions.

Firstly on the question of the “invention” of the Gardener, I have had access to quite a lot of original material relating to the William Brown business from the late 1800s to early 1900s (including one of the original catalogues). In amongst it all I found various letters, the first a letter from James Harper (uncle of James Harper owner of Browns), this is from around 1905

“Your letter arrived about Gardener Fly the pattern is the very same as I made at Monaltrie House and not Garden. Blacklaw will testify to this also John Harper Dess. First I made three, sent one to John, gave one to Mr Wilkinson tenant at Monaltrie and then one for myself. The three flies in one day landed 4 fish for John. Gentleman sent an order to me for 18 flies the same pattern, being scarce of feathers, I sent the order to Blacklaws of Kincardine O’Neil.

Mr Wilkinson was much disappointed giving it away, he offered me 20 pounds to take out a patent for same, I wish I had done so and stopped the Garden work.

The second a letter from James Harper (owner of Browns) to R B Marston the then editor of the “Fishing Gazette” on the 19th Feb 1908 - I quote from it :

“I have not the personal acquaintance of G.M.K. and would shy of it, but am familiar with his identity from my old Bernard days in the early eighties. He has not left kindly impressions here (on the river Dee) nor on Spey. I marvel at the anxiety of some angling writers for the credit of invention. (Pennel seems another in case). The obvious shallowness of much of the quibbling must undermine any real claim they could establish for respect from future generations.

G.M.K.s “Salmon Fly” and his long list of fearfully overdressed “inventions” is not to my liking, I recall to mind one error by him. He ascribes the “Gardener” to Garden. This fly was “invented” - to repeat his, in such case, ridiculous term - by my uncle James Harper while Gardener at Monaltrie, Ballater. There was, I believe, a real novelty here in the use of Golden Pheasant Topping as a hackle. Well do I remember my boyish difficulty to get this to lie smoothly. This uncle is still alive but this winter has been hard on him”

And just to wrap this up a quote from the obituary of Francis Harper (James Juniors dad) published in The Fishing Gazette 24th December 1898, written by Marston.

“His favourite flies were the Heron (with red wing). the Gardener (invented by his brother James), Jock Scott, Popham, Eagle (with mottled turkey wing), Gordon, Akroyd, Silver Doctor, Black Doctor, and Thunderer, and almost invariably the White Eagle was the fly with which he closed the day.”

The Browns catalogue lists over 560 different salmon flies - I wonder if this is the longest list ever produced - unfortunately the actual dressings are not listed. There once existed a typed notebook called "Mr Browns receipt book" which contained the salmon fly patterns, this was loaned by the owner to a famous tackle shop in London in the 1990’s who have subsequently lost it (thrown out during refurbishment) ! I wonder if any of the forum readers have ever heard of it ?

So my question is, I have discovered a hand written note book of instructions on dying feathers from the 1880s - would this be of interest to the modern tier of salmon flies and should I include it in the book ?

When I publish the book - it will cover the history of Browns business (a lot of this will be about the Phantom Minnow that he invented) and short histories of the other Aberdeen tackle makers (you will be surprised how many there are), it will have some focus on salmon flies and hopefully some nice illustrations of vintage and modern tyings. I’m guessing I’ll produce about 200 copies, with perhaps 20 deluxe with a real fly. What do you think ?

Last edited by scottishtrout; 11-16-2005 at 07:37 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slippery When Wet flyspoke >> Archive: Salmon & Steelhead Flies 0 03-15-2013 01:03 PM
Dry or Wet ? QuebecSporting Classic Atlantic Salmon 6 03-16-2006 01:30 PM
Got the 9/10 Dredger wet peter-s-c Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon 3 10-11-2005 09:25 AM
Wet fly John Desjardins >> Archive: Favorite Trout Flies 6 03-15-2004 11:08 AM
Wet-Dry FrenchCreek >> Archive: Favorite Trout Flies 0 02-17-2003 05:39 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 PM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)