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Old 04-26-2005, 10:58 PM
Johnnyb Johnnyb is offline
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spine pain?

I just received the custom made T&T Horizon Series fly rod that I won on Ebay. The materials all look high quality and are assembled with care. The first thing I did with the rod after I unwrapped it was to check the spine...well, what I found out (if I am doing the spine check thing right) is that the butt section guides were in line with the spine, but the tip guides were more or less 90 degrees off the spine!!! damn... My question to you rod builders is: am I crazy to try to remove the tip guides and replace them in the correct position to the spine? Any suggestions or thoughts on the importance of spine alignment? Over on the Washington Fly Fishing website, there is some thought that the spine is not so important as some might think. In fact, one post said Sage marks their blanks with spots for guide locations and these spots do not line up with the spine...I'm confused.
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Old 04-27-2005, 12:37 PM
JimW JimW is offline
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I've only spined the rod prior to attaching the guides, now I wonder you get different results once the guides and epoxy are in place.

I'd cast it and if it works the way you want or expect it to. If it doesn't hook why mess with it.

I would never recommend breaking a rod on purpose but if it's under warranty and you were to catch a really really big fish and somehow the top section broke, well then it might be interesting to see if the next section is properly spined.
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:10 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Truthfully, this is a raging debate amonnst rod builders and manufacturers. Some say you should always spline the blank and place the guides on the spline. Other say you should always spline the blank and place the guides opposite the spline. Others still say to spline the blank and put the guides 90 degrees to the spline. Some advocate putting guides on opposite sides of the spline on different rod sections. And still others say to place the guides on some rod sections on the spline or 180 degrees from the spline, while putting the guides on other sections 90 degrees to the spline.

And to confuse things even more, there are others, such as Sage (a very respected rod manufacturer), who forget the spline completely and put the guides in line with the straightest rotation of the blank.

In other words, there doesn't appear to be any consensus on the proper orientation of blank spline to guide placement. Therefore, I'd fish the rod as is and not worry about it.
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Old 04-27-2005, 03:44 PM
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juro juro is offline
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You can go along the spine or opposite to it - but never askew. Guides at a 90 degree angle to the spine are just plain wrong unless you plan to tip cast side to side.
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Old 04-27-2005, 06:22 PM
debarb debarb is offline
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spine

I think it depends on what you want. There's a soft side and a stiff side in most blanks--the side where the rod bends very readily, and the side which bends least readily. I like the rod bending readily on my forward stroke, so I place the guides accordingly, on the outside of soft bend. If you want a stiffer rod on your forward stroke, and a softer one on your backcast, then you put them on the other side. Don't know that I'd actually notice the difference if they were reversed, but I think I'd notice, as Juro suggests, if the spine were simply ignored
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Old 04-27-2005, 06:36 PM
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Well how does it cast? Bet you will not notice a thing.

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Old 04-27-2005, 08:06 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juro
You can go along the spine or opposite to it - but never askew. Guides at a 90 degree angle to the spine are just plain wrong unless you plan to tip cast side to side.
Tell that to Sage. As Russ says, there's no consensus on spining a blank. When I built rods, I spined them to match my casting style but that doesn't mean they were spined "right". As far as I'm concerned, there's no "right".

Tracking is another issue where there's no consensus -- does it matter or does it not? I tried to ensure that my rods tracked straight but did it make a difference in the way they cast? I can't say that it did.

The only way I can answer the question is to suggest that you spine it the way that it suits you.
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Old 04-27-2005, 08:44 PM
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Peter,

With all due respect of course you express an opinion that does not help me figure out any reasoning behind it.

When someone says that it's important to be on either side of a spine for the energy in a rod to be kept in line during a cast, not much explanation is needed.

But when someone says that wrapping guides out of alignment with a rigid area running the length of the rod, I have to ask...

specifically what kind of casting does this suit?

thanks in advance
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2005, 12:22 PM
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natrix natrix is offline
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custom made T&T Horizon Series fly rod

Johnnyb:

If you go into a shop and take a couple of rods off the rack (Always ask first) and check the spine you will find that they are all over the place. Some high end rods are right on, some arenít. Its not that much trouble to remove and replace guides, you just have to be careful and take your time. On the other hand I guess it depends on what you want to do with your rod as to weather you want a super fine tuned rod or not. How does the rod cast. Does it do what you want it to do, if its OK donít try to fix it. If you want real accuracy or a distance casting tool I think having the guides in line with the spine makes a big difference.

Try test casting the rod and rotating the upper sections of the blank and see if it makes a difference.

I have also had blanks that have a natural curve to them that you can see as you roll the blank around. In that case I have settled for the natural curve of the blank. I donít think that hurts anything really.

Natrix
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Old 05-02-2005, 01:19 PM
Gary W Gary W is offline
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JohnnyB,

If you go into a shop and try a few rods from one manufacturer, you will usually find that they are all splined differently. That's because they are built in a factory where time eats into profit margin. Try some and if you cannot find one splined correctly, write to the manufacturer and ask why. Who knows you may get a correctly splined rod at a reduced rate!!
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Old 05-10-2005, 08:18 AM
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teflon_jones teflon_jones is offline
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I have a couple of questions here, not to hijack the thread, but...

1. Is it a "spine" or "spLine"? There are some knowledgable people on this thread who aren't calling it the same thing.

2. What is it?

3. How do you determine it?

Thanks, and sorry for the newbie questions, but I'm not a rod builder!
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:28 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Teflon_jones,

It is called both spine and spline, although spline is the more accurate term because it is describing the stiffest or least bendable side or plane of the blank. In other words, the spline is the side of the blank most resistant to bending (some folks think this also means it is the strongest side, but that is eroneous). It is found by either 1) placing the butt of a rod section (the thicker portion of the section) on a table, allowing the top or thinner portion of the section to rest on the 1st two fingers of one of your hands, and then pushing or flexing the blank down in the center of the section while slowly rolling it as you push down on it; 2) or by placing the butt (thicker portion of the rod section) againse the bottom edge of a table and pushing up in the center of the blank against the table and your other hand. The spline is located where the blank "jumps" or "resists bending".

However, as valuable splining is with bamboo or greenheart rods, its value with fiberglass, boron, or graphite is a matter of much debate. Supposedly rods with guides placed on or opposite the spline will have the rod blank track in a straighter plane when casting than those with the guides placed elsewhere. With wood rods (bamboo or greenheart) this makes perfect sense because of their much lower modulus and elasticity; but with modern tubuler fiberglass, boron, and graphite it is very difficult to quantify the difference (especially with the high modulus graphites) because they are so stiff and recover so fast the difference in tracking are rather minute.

That is why splining or not splining and putting guides on, opposite, or 90 degrees to the spline are each advocated by rod builders. It is also the reason some say to simply place the guides on the rod's straightest plane as you sight down the blank section and not worry about the spline (this is what Sage does).
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Old 05-10-2005, 02:22 PM
Gary W Gary W is offline
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By coincedence, I had a friend call me the other day to say that he had sent a Powerlite Speycaster back to Bruce & Walker because, when the rod was set up, the top section appeared to go off at a slight angle to the others. I imagine that the rod was probably splined correctly, but asthetically it looked off to a buyer not familiar with splining.

On such a high end rod I would expect a perfectly straight blank!
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Old 05-17-2005, 12:16 PM
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One mor thing I would like to add:

I have one spey rod where I put the guides on the hard side. I donít notice any effect in casting the rod, but with a heavy fish on the rod wants to rotate to one side or the other. I have learned to live with it but in the beginning it was kind of annoying.

Natrix
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