Approaches - Fly Fishing Forum
Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon Amazing "Inland ocean" fisheries

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-26-2004, 02:39 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Question Approaches

Since I've had a bit of time over the holidays, I’ve started construction on a GL spey fishing site devoted to the use of the long rod in the GL basin. This site has to have a “purpose” so to fill that I need, I’ve been kicking around the idea of a specialised GL approach. While Scotland, Scandinavia, and the PNW have their traditions, we have nothing that approximates a GL tradition or approach. Something like this doesn’t get started from scratch, neither can it be dreamt up by an individual – it’s an outgrowth of the accumulated, shared experiences of numerous anglers. So, since we haven’t yet created our own, perhaps we can pinch the best of others and meld them together into a useful synergy that can serve us well.

For this website, I’m working on a 1-2-2-2 concept – one rod, two lines, two casts, and two variations -- but before I go to the bother of building this into the site, I want to run it past the folks here to get your opinions. I’m banking on this being an approach that should appeal to a first time long rodder as it simplifies this business down to into something manageable. It should work for the experienced long rodder as it provides a basis for the building of an efficient technique and it should work for that ‘tweener’ who has been down the long rod road for a while but for whom things have yet to gel.

This approach is based on the idea that it should be applicable to the broadest range of GL waters while using the minimum amount of gear and technique. It does not preclude the use of other casts, methods, or gear rather, it answers the simple question, “What is the minimum I need to have and know in the way of rods, lines and casts, to fish these waters with reasonable efficiency?”

For rods, I’m suggesting something in the 13’ to 13’6” lengths in the 7/8/9 weight ranges, as rods in these classes seem to be suitable for the widest spectrum of our waters. Some rivers might need smaller rods while others need larger, but if you had to make do on these rivers, a rod in this range would suffice. For the rest of the majority of rivers, a rod in this range is ideal.

As for lines, we sometimes have the need to cast short and sometimes we need to cast long. Sometimes we want to strip line and other times we don’t. Sometimes we need to get real deep and other times we don’t. Sometimes we want to dead drift and other times we want to swing. To find a single line that does everything on this list is pretty tough so I’m suggesting two, a Skagit set up and a mid-belly tips line. If the purchase is well planned, one needs only a mid-belly tips and then uses those tips on a Skagit belly to complete the set.

As for casts, the more you can do the better, but if you had to live with two, what would they be? These casts have to handle wind, large changes of direction, be easy to perform especially off the wrong shoulder, and be able to lift tips with ease. I’ve found the combination of Double and Circle to be the best. First off, they’re mirror images of each other so if you can learn one, the other is easy. They cover upstream and downstream winds, right and left banks. The high lift and broad sweep is ideal for tips, and they can handle all sorts of directions.

Finally, we don’t always have the luxury of lots of room so the ability to perform both of these casts with either regular D-Loops or continuous/water loading loops, gives us the flexibility to move between situations with lots of room and limited room.

So, my intention is to build a site with this 1-2-2-2 method at it's core, plus include river essays and articles from GL anglers who would like to describe their successful technique (agreement with 1-2-2-2 is not required. ). The site would also have space for gear and technique descriptions beyond the 1-2-2-2 as obviously, I'm not promoting this as some be all and end all. It wouldn't include a forum or a chat so it wouldn't compete with this forum in any way.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by peter-s-c; 12-26-2004 at 02:42 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #2  
Old 12-27-2004, 02:41 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain, NY
Posts: 146
A consideration:

I would focus on the flies which work in the Great Lakes system and the techniques which make those flies successful, not try to come up with a new technique with the goal of naming a GL technique. Some environmental factors could come second, size of most waters, weather throught the winter months, and so far. One of the demanding factors of our winter fishing is the fact that our winters tend to be much harsher than the PNW and our water sources have less springs and are more dam oriented, at least in NY. If you ook at the skagit style or the tip systems they use in the PNW you will find, if the flies they are throwing that way didn't work, they would be using different flies in a different technique that works. Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 12-27-2004, 03:29 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Ya, I can drop that part -- going by the underwhelming response it received, it's probably a smart idea. Probably flies and technique should be high on the list, followed by lines, and lastly rods since we're usually, "dancin' whit what brung us."

Actually, I cut to the chase with that description of the approach, but much of what is implict in it, involves dealing with winter -- specifically casting mid-belly tips lines that don't need to be stripped, etc.

I'm hoping that peole who contribute, will provide info on their waters along the lines you've mentioned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 12-27-2004, 03:31 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain, NY
Posts: 146
I'm heading up to the Salmon, this week. I'll let you know how what where, Supposed to be in the forties on Thursday.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 12-27-2004, 03:39 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Thanks, we're heading off to the Grand tomorrow for one more round before she closes till April.

I'll be saving any info people send me on rivers and such, then roll them into the site, (with the appropriate credits of course).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 12-28-2004, 07:49 AM
BLACK FRANCIS's Avatar
BLACK FRANCIS BLACK FRANCIS is offline
Nick Pionessa OOFS
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: wny
Posts: 160
Peter
i would be happy to contribute to the stew, but i'm not really sure what you are asking for. if it's just a went here caught this then no thanks. but, if you want technical details and notes on technique for certain waters or flies for the like i think it may be very useful. imho your first post was difficult for me to understand exactly what you wanted out of us. definitly interested and willing, just need some direction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 01-01-2005, 03:46 PM
loco_alto's Avatar
loco_alto loco_alto is offline
any fish, any time
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 465
Dornblaser -

let someone who is not involved speak up, since you might have reason to question Juro or Dana's motivation.

The chicken (MSN - ISC) definitely came before the egg (FFForum and then CND and also Dana's professional aspirations).

Now the eggs have hatched. As the chicks grow, they are feeling their way around. I think they are doing a fine job. I've been bothered in the past by what seemed like informercials, but everyone involved (and I mean everyone) has shown a great deal of maturation in the process. You can't fault these people because they have professional connections as reps or sponsors or guides or potential book authors. I think they're learning, and making a great environment for everyone around here.

just my opinion over the years here...
__________________
Steve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 01-01-2005, 04:29 PM
Dornblaser's Avatar
Dornblaser Dornblaser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WI & western MI tribs
Posts: 150
Send a message via AIM to Dornblaser
Steve,

Not sure what you mean by this: "let someone who is not involved speak up, since you might have reason to question Juro or Dana's motivation." I am certainly not involved except as an occasional poster. I did point out and question Juro's lack of professionalism in the thread that was removed. And, yes, there was a welcome change after then. I suspect that that thread was the catalyst that caused the change. FWIW - I have ordered a CND rod since then.

But the speyclave/speypages is not the point: I do think that are needs that are not being addressed by the existing forums. Specifically, GL focus on technique, streams, and ettiquette.

David
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 01-01-2005, 05:52 PM
Gillie Gillie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Great lakes and West Coast Steelhead
Posts: 165
Dornblaser

I think the GL section of this forum has had some good discussions. If there hasn't been it's due to a lack of postings rather than a lack of oppurtunity. Peter was initially discussing a site like his streamer page where information is posted - not another forum.

Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel you should talk to Dana and Juro. I'm sure they would be willing to add sections if there was a request and it made sense.

The problem with too many forums is that it convolutes the information. I had looked for information on the web for about a year before finding this site. I have gotten some of the best information I could have imagined since joining this forum.

This forum has true experts like Simon Gawesworth, Ed Ward, Bob Meiser, Aaron Reimer and many others that I cant even begin to name frequenting the site and answering questions about tackle they have developed. This sort of expertise does not exsist elsewhere on the web.

As far as being self promoting for Dana and Juro, I have never found a web site that wasn't promoting something. They have done an outstanding job being objective. Even though they are both linked to a specific tacjle company I have read posts from both of them praising tackle from other manufacturers when questions have been raised about it. If you really want to talk about being objective, they haven't intervened or even commented in a thread that has trended towards advocating taking the conversation elsewhere.

Instead of advocating a new forum start new threads here and add to the discussion.

Gillie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 01-01-2005, 06:10 PM
Dornblaser's Avatar
Dornblaser Dornblaser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WI & western MI tribs
Posts: 150
Send a message via AIM to Dornblaser
Gillie,

Good points. The speypages/speyclave is the best spey forum out there.

It is an idea that I have been mulling over for sometime now. I was thinking of a site that was information rich that also included a forum and that had a focus more than spey.

I should have emailed Peter directly and not posted. Let's let the subject drop for now. If it moves beyond the idea stage to the planning stage I will post again.

Happy New Year everyone,
David
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 01-01-2005, 07:34 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
David

I'm familiar with the Steelhead site and I'm not planning anything near as elaborate. This is just a simple site with info on tactics, etc. for GL spey fishers. The structure and functionality is already complete -- all that's left is to plug in the text and images. I will be having a section open to other GL spey fishers to publish a small article on their preferred methods and I'd welcome your contribution.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The time approaches... pescaphile Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum 1 08-26-2003 10:01 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 AM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)