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Whats your Bone Rod/Reel?

24K views 75 replies 43 participants last post by  MartyG 
#1 ·
I'm curious what everyone fishes for bones.

Rod: St.Croix Legend Elite 9ft 8wt 5 pc. Reel: Abel Super 8, holds 8 wt line 200yds of backing.

Bone line usually the slow int sinking SA bonefish line, its a couple of years old.
 
#52 ·
On the money...

I'd have to agree with JR SPEY on the thoughts about running line and SA's obsession for distance. I've quit using them as well.

99% of the time, the first cast to a bone doesn't get it done. Quick, accurate recasts are essential, especially on those all to common occasions when the angler doesn't see the fish. Over the dark turtlegrass flats we have here, I regularly guide the casting/stripping of my anglers to get them into bones they never see, until we land them. Now, I obviously would much rather have the angler see the fish - they can make a better presentation then - but that's not always possible when a fish is coming at you and you're running out of time. Shooting heads might load quickly (no arguement there) but they don't allow for quick pickups, which are absolutely essential in flats fishing (bones, tarpon, permit, reds, etc.). A good flats line (Cortland or Rio) will give you that option, although you still want to match your line for they type of fishing you'll be doing that day. (ie bright sunny day with great visabilility for bones and anglers might require longer shots, but an overcast, windy day might necessitate quick, short shots.)

The other reason I'd venture to say shooting heads would be a less than idea choice is that they generate way too much linespeed. This would make a delicate presentation very difficult indeed. Also, the sound of a flyline hitting the water does indeed spook fish, and heads are definitely heavier. That's why so many bonefish guides I've fished with love sidearm casting - the line doesn't fall from such a height so the splashdown is minimized. On calm, clear days (especially around the full moon) I regularly see bones change direction after they hear a line slap water. On those day's I've gone down to a #6 rod/line settup and started catching fish again. They just don't hear that light line hitting the water as easily.

Speaking of which, if you can cast well, don't ignore those lighter rods. Personally every time I travel to fish the weather is lousy (blowing 20-30 and cloudy) but I have had a handful of days where a lighter rod made the difference. (Tarpon in the Keys and bones in Bahamas and Little Cayman.) Carry a toy when you go, sometimes that lighter rod/line can be on the money.
 
#53 ·
OK :hihi: I get the message, ditch the shooting heads. Will do.

BTW, I noticed people seem down on SA bonefish lines but reading their latest blurb it seems that they've been paying attention. Supposed to have a thicker running line, longer belly and rear taper plus a heavier front end for quicker loading and wind. Has anyone tried this version?

About floaters sinking after a few uses. Well we've all heard about water wicking up the braided core and I know I've been a bit skeptical about this as a cause. I've tried sealing some wth glue but no joy (the glue probably cracked afterward). Recently I've been fishing with an Airflo WF-5-F Ridge line that comes with factory loops molded in. Guess what, no tip sink at all. Best floating trout line I've ever used and Airflo doesn't have exactly the best rep when it comes to trout lines. From now on I'm heat sealing the ends of all of my new floaters before they ever get wet.

Peter
 
#54 ·
Interesting...

That's an interesting cause I'd never heard of. That may be the reason SA lines start to sink... or at least one of the causes... After all, Rio lines with their mono core don't sink, so there's a logic there. Of course, if you look at Cortland, Teeny or Wulff lines (all of which have braided cores) you'll find they keep floating, so that sort of falls apart.

Also, they way I attach my leaders to flyline is by loop-to-loop. I make my own loops in both ends of the flyline by doubling the line back on itself and tying a pair of Nail knots with 10-12 lb test mono about 1/2 inch apart. These cinch down so tight that I seriously doubt water is getting in through the ends. Personally, I think it has to do with the bouancy of the line itself, and maybe the diameter. (Greater diameter equals greater displacement equals greater bouancy... maybe.)

I haven't fished SA's new line, and I won't until one of my clients brings one with. All I know is my experience with their products while wading has been disappointing, to put it mildly.

Bonehead
 
#55 ·
When the new Mastery lines were first introduced (maybe four years ago now?) they had a thin running line. After a bunch of complaints about them, the running line diameter was increased slightly. More recently, however, they switched back to the former dimension (from my understanding it was at Bruce Richards' insistence). If they've switched again it must have been very recently. What I've been told by my contacts at SA is if a customer wants a heavier running line I should sell him the Mastery Redfish line. Evidently, there are several features of this line that make it more suitable for bonefishing than the Mastery Bonefish for many anglers. Since I now lead my customers toward the Rio (especially the 2006 version which is not nearly as wiry) and the Monic (the Tropical Opaque is still the best bonefish line I've ever used) I can't comment on the usefullness of the Mastery Redfish, but it might be worth checking out.
 
#56 ·
I'm getting the info on the running line from SA's information bulletin on their website -- assuming it's current. Looking at the bulletin, it would seem to address the issues mentioned in this thread, but only so much can be gained from it -- nothing beats time on the water.

As far as wicking goes, it's enough of a problem for Rio to menition it on their site. I've found that nail knots do not prevent wicking as the end of the braided core is still in contact with water. I would suspect that better performance by other brands reflects differences in core material and construction. The only sure fire method is a sealed tip. I've heard that some use Zap-a-Gap but I haven't tried that glue -- yet.
 
#57 ·
I fish S/A, Rio and Wulff bonefish lines. I like them all.

As far as the comments on S/A, I have to respectfully disagree bonehead - perhaps you got a faulty line? Mine casts wonderfully with the taper Bruce Richards developed and floats fine. The color is great against the sky and I've been very comfortable with all types of casts from quickfire roll casts and snake rolls to head-length reactionary shots to long aerialized reaching casts over flats to distant cruisers, no problems at all.

Even if it did sink slightly under the surface film it's common knowledge that adhesion on the surface film on calm bright days spooks bonefish, I have experienced this first-hand and know it's absolutely true. However I have not had a sinking problem with this line.

The Wulff has the most well-behaved front taper, all Wulff lines seem to have that smooth turnover. While fishing Acklins with Bill Kessler, it was clear his Wulff line was a pleasure to cast and he sung it's praises which led me to order one. I was pleasantly surprised.

I fished the Rio the year before and found it to be a very assertive taper that bites through wind and shoots effortlessly for long casts. It needed some stretching to start the day, but bonefish lines often do.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these lines, I ended up owning all three for my three bonefish weight rods.
 
#58 ·
I find Cortland 444 line does just what I'd like a bonefish line to do, and have never had the urge to change.
That's a great set of points about the 'double-casting-duty' of a bonefish rod. I've always assumed that if I didn't see a fish until within 30', it served me right for missing it. I definitely need to focus more on the close-in aspect. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
#59 ·
Juro,

It wasn't one "faulty line", which is understandable. I'm talking 4-5 SA Mastery Series Lines in different sizes and a couple Orvis and Sage lines, which I'm pretty sure 3M makes. If not I stand corrected. All of them have started sinking after a 1-2 weeks use.

Now, most of my clients that fish SA (and there are lots) have few problems. But they're fishing those lines maybe a week a year. However, I had a good buddy down a couple weeks ago and he spent 2 weeks fishing bones, tarpon, and permit here. He always laughed at my problems with SA lines too, until his started sinking... and catching in the grass, coral, rocks, etc. He mostly fished from kayak or beach at home and never had a problem.

I've talked with other guides that do lots of wading, from Hawaii to Mexico, and many have had the same problems. One guide out of Nervous Waters Hawaii comes particularly to mind, but he did mention that there was one year in there that did keep floating... but I'm not sure which.

I want to be fair though. I'm talking about the loose loop of line sinking while you're wading: 4-8 hrs a day for months on end during the season here. I'm not talking about a line sinking after you cast it - the surface tension of stripping the line seems to mostly prevent that. I never carry my lines, nor do many of my clients (that usually results in a tangle when a fish takes off). Those lines have more than enough time to absorb water... but then other brands don't seem to have a problem.


PS I love the way they cast and shoot a mile, which is the devil of it.
 
#60 ·
bonehead said:
Juro,
I want to be fair though. I'm talking about the loose loop of line sinking while you're wading: 4-8 hrs a day for months on end during the season here. I'm not talking about a line sinking after you cast it - the surface tension of stripping the line seems to mostly prevent that.
Ahhh, that's different and not a water wicking problem. Affects steelheaders too when you're casting out a load of line and the running line is two foot under . . . . :mad:
 
#61 ·
just upgrading my 8wt as we speak:

9wt - sage xi2 4pc with orvis hydros iv with either rio wff or wulff btt clear intermediate

old (now backup) 8wt - okuma guide select 4pc and okuma helios 8/9 with sa mastery multi-tip system. at one point that was my only 8 or better so i needed the versatility of the multi-tip. surprisingly rugged setup that has lasted a good while. sealed drag on the helios has handled bones, small cudas, stripe and over-slot reds

new 8wt - sage vantage 4pc and nautilus ccf 8 with soon-to-be-ordered wulff btt two-tone or lost tip. gotten everything on ebay so far so the whole rig will end up being under $550 with line and backing.

i went with the vantage, b/c i like the slower med-fast action for my 8wt. that xi2 is in the quiver for when winds are belting, but i can adjust my stroke and be much more accurate/delicate at close range with a bit slower rod.
 
#64 ·
I currently run two rods that are almost the same. Both are Orvis Helios 9 footers, one an 8 wt 9.5 tip flex and the other a 7 wt 10.0 tip flex. Both have a Waterworks Lamson ULA Force LT 3X reel on them with an 8 wt line and about 300+ yards of 20 lb gel spun backing. At least one line is a Sci Anglers Mastery WF floater, but they both might be. I'm not positive of the brand on the second one! I'll rig up each rod with a different pattern so that I have a second rod ready to go if I'm casting from the boat and the fish aren't interested in the first fly I throw. It's much faster to hand the first rod back to the guy sitting in the bow than to tie on a second fly, especially since you usually tie lousy knots when you're rushing! :)

Both rod/reel combos weigh about the same as my 4 wt trout setups. I specifically went for the lightest possible rod/reel combo I could find, and this is in fact the lightest 8 wt package you can buy in the world today. The rods are just over 3 ounces and so are the reels. With line and backing, they're still only about a half pound total. Some guys that have fished for years for bones have felt my setups and don't like how light they are and want the heavy weight of their Abel reels and Sage rods, which are about a pound, or twice what my setup weighs.

I definitely go above and beyond with backing because I refuse to lose the fish of a lifetime because I don't have enough when I'm wading and can't motor after a fish. The biggest bone I've caught to date, a 10 lb 33" fish, almost spooled me even with that much, so I have real-world experience to back up (no pun intended) needing that much. I've caught plenty of 7-8 pounders and they can easily rip off 200-250 yards of backing too no matter how much pressure you apply or how heavy your tippet is (I often use 20 pound flouro btw, mostly due to seeing a ~20+ pound 45"+ bone up close and personal last year that I actually got a few casts at - and no I'm not exaggerating both the guide and I thought it was a small shark it was so big!).

I've used a lot of other setups over the years including other Orvis rods and reels, Sage, Winston, G Loomis, and others, but my current setup is definitely by far my favorite.
 
#66 ·
I use two primary set-ups here in the Virgin Islands. I use either an 8 or 9 wt. TFO TiCrX with either a Billy Pate Bonefish Anti-reverse with Orvis Clear Sink Tip Wonderline (8wt), or Tibor Everglades with Orvis Wonderline Gen. 3 (9wt) or Orvis DXR Anti-reverse reel with Orvis Wonderline Gen. 3 (8wt).
 
#67 ·
doctorsteve said:
I just got a 7wt Winston BIII-SX that I can't wait to try. I have a Canyon reel that I haven't used in a few years. Going to pair it up with that. Normally I use an 8wt Sage XI2 with my Lamson. That's going to play back up for now. Will be in the Bahamas in less than 4 weeks now.
I used the Winston the whole trip. VERY nice rod. Excellent craftsmanship and the thing casts like a dream.
 
#69 ·
Loomis Pro 4X 8wt with Abel Super 8 and Wulff Triangle Taper. I like the Pro4X because it's a little softer in the tip for close casts but can still bang out a long one. If Loomis made a Pro4x 9' 7wt. I'd have one of those as well. Rajeff says they will offer them late 2013 or '14.
 
#70 ·
Avg bones: T&T H2 4pc 7wt with Dannielson 6nine, SA bonefish and lots and lots of backing. I love this rod in the Bahamas.

Bigger bones: Sage Rplxi 8wt 5pc with Dannielson HD 710, SA bonefish and even more backing. This rod has done a lot for me over the years, and it's so compact in the OEM travel case.

They both come along, one in the luggage and one over the shoulder which never gets questioned at the security gate as a carry-on probably because of the official looking blue fabric travel case w/ reel and a few flies 'accidentally' thrown into the inside just in case of a baggage glitch.

My experience in bonefishing is it's the other stuff that can make or break your trip... shoes, socks inside them; sunglasses and garments; means of carrying gear like chestpacks, backpacks and slings; camelback water supply; etc etc etc
 
#71 ·
Juro, I agree. If your feet hurt, you can't see fish, your pack doesn't feel right or you look for something and its not there you are not going to have as much success or fun out there.

I have used a lot of different rods and reels and have caught fish and had fun with all of them. Last few trips when wading I have used a Gary Borger Pro Series 8 wt with a Sage 2580 reel. Both are light weight and the rod is easy to cast. I have started using the Rio Redfish line when wading. Loads quickly and is good for anything within 60' which is usually all you need wading.
 
#76 · (Edited)
Three salt water setups. All are 9.5 tip flex.

Orvis TLS 8 weight w/Orvis Large Arbor IV & Orvis Striper Intermediate plus a spare spool with same line. Old setup but casts great. Reels should always have spools removed when storing so they won't stick together.

Orvis ZG Helios 8 weight w/Orvis Large Arbor IV with Orvis Bonefish plus spare spool with same line.

Orvis Zero Gravity 10 weight with Orvis VO2 V with Orvis Tarpon line plus spare spool with Orvis Intermediate line.

Fresh Water.
Orvis Helios 2 5 weight 9.5 tip flex with Orvis CFO reel & Orvis Trout 5WWF line. Love this setup. Feather light and casts nicely. Also love the sound of the reel for what that's worth.

I didn't know much about fly fishing but met some very helpful folks at the Orvis shop in Fanueil Hall in Boston so I went there a lot. I have no experience with any other maker of reels or rods. The Abels and Tibors look nice though. Might go there if I need a replacement.
 
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