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Old 01-03-2004, 07:48 PM
Ronn Lucas Ronn Lucas is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Deschutes
Posts: 51
Hi flytyer,

Ok, I'll give you the chenille head but in "Classic Salmon Flies, History & Patterns" by Mikael Frodin, he states the following re the Kate as by Kelson. "... Kelson writes,..... is constructed as follows. Tag: Silver twist and light yellow silk, and a topping for the tail. The butt is of black Ostrich herl followed by a body comprising two turns of crimson dyed silk and then crimson dyed seal's fur. The body is ribbed with oval silver tinsel from the second turn of tinsel a crimson dyed hackle is wound. The throat is a light yellow cock's hackle. the wing (on Kelson's Kate) is thin and constructed first of fibers from grey Mallard and Golden Pheasant tippet and, then sections of Bustard, Golden Pheasant tail, light yellow, crimson, and light blue dyed Swan, Mallard and a topping. The fly should have cheeks of Jungle Cock feathers and horns of blue Macaw." Now, I am not a historian when it comes to early patterns but your "Kate" is not as specified in this recipe. I see yellow dubbing on the body, flat tinsel, no horns, no cheeks, hackle starting at the third turn of ribbing (as stated in your earlier "rules" but not as per Kelson). Do I see six ribs in it? Maybe one is covered by dubbing?

Your March Brown is also not as the recipe is listed in the same book which is as follows. "...Tag: Gold twist, Tail: A topping, Body: Silver Monkey's fur and a little dirty orange seal's fur, mixed together, Ribs: Gold tinsel (oval), Throat: Partridge hackle, Wings: Sections from a hen Pheasant tail (in large sizes Turkey)." I could be wrong but it looks to me that you have used flat silver tinsel as well as silver oval in the body. It is also doesn't look as if the required dubbing was used. Is there silver Monkey fur in it as well as orange Seal?

These are not the only things I see that are not correct either or may need a bit of improvement. I'd be happy to help off board as my earlier post indicated.

flytyer, my point in this is not to be critical of your flies or anyone else's. You seem to hold yourself up as the resident historian and keeper of truth. I am not, nor do I tie perfect flies. My sole interest is not to mislead Tyers who may be new to the craft and particularly the full dressed flies. When you presented these two flies as "Kelson", that implies that they are dressed as he would. If a new Tyer assumed you were right and wanted to dress a Kate or March Brown given your presentation of it, he/she would have been wrong.

I said it before, there are NO rules that can't be broken. I also said that when tying a classic, it should be tied as close as possible to the original and where substitutions are used, they should be noted. I don't expect you to have Monkey hair in this day and age (although I'd be happy to send you a small snippet of it).

The guys you hold in such high regard (Kelson, Pryce-Tannatt, et all) changed the patterns all the time and they noted it.

Either rules are rules or they aren't.

The goal ought to be to have fun tying flies and particularly the full dressed ones. That's my #1 rule!

Happy Trails!
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