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Old 07-24-2006, 05:46 PM
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Talking Juro's Improved Loop Knot



OK the loop knot thing was gnawing at my tinkerer psyche, I have to admit the optimal solution would be a loop knot that is not a compromise in strength. I guess being a fisherman I can't stand to let one iota of advantage slip away if the downside is bearable. However the current non-slip loop knot design is just plain inadequate so rather than just blow it off I've designed a new loop knot that has superior strength with the caveat that the single loop strand will always be weaker than the double over style fixed knot like the trilene and palomar.

When the loop strand breaks instead of the knot structure, then one can't fault the knot. As I test more and more I find the problem with the loop knot is that the knot structure fails more often than the loop strand, a sure sign of a knot being weaker than the line.

Before we begin, the surgeon's loop is amazingly strong but it cocks the loop off to one side, more as the line diameter and stiffness increases. This is an attempt to simulate the strength of the double surgeon's loop without the off-line angle.

The fault with the common non-slip is (a) a single overhand knot provides the 'jam' structure and a feeble clinch wrap provides the 'clasp' from the opposite side of the jam knot.

My approach here is to (1) double up the jam and (2) improve the clasp.

Tell me what you think...

Juro's fixed loop knot(s):

Step #1:
Make a DOUBLE overhand knot instead of the single overhand knot for standard Homer Rhode or Non-Slip Loop knot.

Step #2:
Pass the tag thru the fly eye then back thru the double overhand. Go ahead and tighten it up and pull it right up to the eye of the fly, don't bother trying to hold the knot open or size the loop at this point. It will open to size when you pull tight later.

Step #3:
Using my little favorite double-ended needle, tie a small nail knot (3-4 wraps) on the other side of the double overhand. Set this nail knot where you want the loop size to be.

Step #4:
Pull from both ends and the loop emerges, setting the nail knot against the double 'jam' knot.

This knot is pretty damn strong you will hardly be able to tell the difference between it and the double surgeon's loop except that this loop sets straight unlike the surgeons which is prone to an offset (despite incredible strength).

In the pull test it NEVER broke before the standard non-slip loop, which always broke first and always broke at the windings not the strand.

In fact I have to struggle to pop this knot using two of these knots on either end of 8 lb test where the standard no-slip popped pathetically easy.

This is the same technique I used to improve the slim beauty knot, and is very strong but a bit cumbersome if you are not equipped or adept with the double end needle.

EASIER ALTERNATIVES (still much stronger than the std non-slip)

If you don't have a double ended needle on your everyday fishing lanyard...

Option#1 - tie a uni-knot style slide knot on the far side of the double jam knot and pull tight as I pulled the nail knot above. It's not as strong as the nail style clasp but far stronger than the common knot.

Option #2 - box off the tag over the mainline with a square knot sequence and then pull the tag thru the loops like the standard non-slip. Difference being the windings are not clinch-like but instead a more robust jam to jam structure results. The breaking difference is noticeable. I will post pics, easier than it sounds.

I will post step-by-step imgs for those who need them but since so many are already into the loops I would imagine my instructions are pretty easy to interpret.

The nail approach is the strongest unsurprisingly.

Effectively it's the improvement I suggested to the slim beauty applied to the loop knot with the pass thru doubled up.

Alternatively you can tie a 3-4 wrap uni on the other side, or box off a square then thru.

The downside of all of these knots is that unlike the standard non-slip they tighten by pulling open rather than by pulling the tag. The standard allows one to set the loop size and hold it while tightening the tag end.

However since this method allows the overhand pass-thrus to be tightened and everything pulled tight on the final pull, it's just as easy to tie. Just different.

Where you set the 'clasp' knot defines the size of the loop, with a little practice (about 30 minutes) I was able to size the loop as I wanted.

Now I am back to liking loop knots, because I have confidence in their strength.

try em and let me know what you think

(will post pics later when I get a chance)
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