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Old 03-29-2000, 06:59 AM
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juro juro is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
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RE:Offshore 2hander Specifications?

Hi Eddie -

Great points!

<font color="0000ff">
&gt; It seems as if folks aren't sure what to make of a two handed blue water
&gt; rod. I think that general wisdom holds that shorter rods give the angler
&gt; a leverage advantage( which is why tuna sticks are so short). Casting
&gt; (quick and accurate) would seem to be less important than fighting.
</font><!--color-->

Absolutely! For the surf stick we are sticking with 11-12.5 feet, but for the bluewater rod we're thinking 10 ft MAX and a lot of that is the extended handle and full rear grip. Frankly, it will most likely lack the ease of distance casting that long overhand rods provide but I would like to think the full handle behind the reel and the extended handle above would allow (a) ability to easily cast the highest line weights and flies using two hands (b) ability to place lower handle and butt on hip or belt to gain greater leverage on big game.

<font color="0000ff">
&gt; Most "big game" rods have an extended grip but now even those are coming
&gt; under scrutiny(negative).I spoke with Jeffry Cardenas and he sais that
&gt; he doesn't use a fore grip when fishing for tuna. </font><!--color-->

Great guy! I met Jefferey when he ran the shop on Key West. I was recruiting website customers for Mike Tucker and Greg McDermid (Virtual Flyshop before their big business arrangements). If you have contact information, I'd appreciate it if you could forward that to me (email icon).

<font color="0000ff">
&gt; I like to have the
&gt; option able to move my hands around during a long fight but I am always
&gt; open to new ideas. I look forward to hearing about your progres.</font><!--color-->

We'll DEFINITELY keep you posted, in fact please consider testing the rods first hand (or should I say second hand ) I'd be happy to send them your way for testing.

<font color="0000ff">
&gt; I heard about a guy fishing with a spey rod for tarpon, but nothing
&gt; beyond the novelty factor. An English guy once told me that "nothing
&gt; kills a salmon faster than a two handed rod" whatever that means.</font><!--color-->

Well, these are very different from the Spey rods I own - they're two handed but the tapers are worlds apart. As I mentioned our intention is to determine the applicability of two-handed rods to new scenarios. Spey rods IMHO already have their place on the salmon and steelhead rivers of the world, and do not fit into the niches we are exploring.

As I understand it, many traditional atlantic salmon anglers are not catch-and-release oriented. Catch and release is a new cultural shift (away from catch and kill) that is being promoted in Canadian Maritimes and European regions even in this day and age. One might possibly (although who am I to say) interpret that statement as "the Spey rod is the most effective weapon for salmon". I would agree with that, you cant cast where you can't with a single hander, you can mend virtually the whole line, and the bungee action keeps the fish on the hook despite the classic antics of the leaper. Whether he meant "you can tame the beast" easily with the two-handed rod -or- the two-handed rod exhausts the fish to death, I don't know. If you have his email I would love to engage this discussion with him.

<font color="0000ff">
&gt; Handling the fish close to the boat will be a challenge that needs to
&gt; be worked out. </font><!--color-->

I would agree if we were targeting something as long as a Spey rod... but 10 feet should be fine, what do you think?

<font color="0000ff">
&gt; It will be fun, but I would hesitate to get too cute with the fish of
&gt; a life time. Maybe a week in Quepos would give you enough shots to solve
&gt; problems quickly.</font><!--color-->

Tell me more! Should the rod rendezvous with you there?

<font color="0000ff">
&gt; I don't mean to be negative, but I am having trouble seeing what
&gt; problems will be solved with a two handed bluewater rod. I am all for
&gt; inovation so I encourage you to experiment. At the worst, you'll have a
&gt; few good storys to tell, and who knows...pioneer of two handed bluewater
&gt; fishing.</font><!--color-->

You hit it on the head when you said "fun", that's what we're trying to do most of all - and include members in it directly. It sounds like when we get something worth sending out here, I will definitely send it to you to test out if you would.

Problem to solve:

Given that the rod is a reasonable length (~10') in an overhead (not Spey) two-hander, it will allow (a) fatigue-free casting of super large flies and line weights using the push-me-pull-you motion (b) added advantages during the fight due to leverage of long forward handle and prominent lower handle on hip or belt (c) overall shift in human-gear weight ratio in favor of human.

Thanks for the great points and I hope we can prove oput some of these concepts in your neck of the woods someday!

best regards,
Juro
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