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Lipripper 01-21-2003 11:09 AM

Muskegon River Reg Changes
Just so everyone knows. There is a new proposed change in Trout regs on the Muskegon. The proposal includes changing the kill size from over 15" to any fish 10" and over from Thornapple downstream to the lake. This is based on a handfull of electroshocking studies done in a section of river that isn't even in the proposed change zone(Pine to Thornapple) over a period of three months. Basically they didn't zap any large fish and so they decided that they didn't exist throughout the entire river.

The DNR is holding a public meeting on the topic. The meeting date is JANUARY 27th AT 7PM at the NEWAYGO SPORTSMAN'S CLUB. If you are close enough to do it please show up and voice your concern!


pmflyfisher 01-21-2003 11:58 AM


Thanks but for the record Old PMFLYFISHER has not killed a trout or salmon in 15 years and thats the way it is going to stay the remainder of my fly fishing days. :D

Maybe I should change my user name to NOKILLPM or something like that.


PM Out

P.S. Let me know when you get the heaters in the DB:chuckle:

Lipripper 01-21-2003 01:10 PM


No heaters yet.:) I am conserving in an effort to maximize my options for the new reel. They are on my list for next year though.:smokin:

I haven't killed a trout in Michigan in many years myself. Bonked one last year on my survival expedition on the Smith, but, tough times call for tough actions.......:rolleyes:

The problem with the reg changes is they are going from managing the resource as trophey water (kind of) to put and take based on some shocking data that is best. It's bad news for conservation minded anglers.


pmflyfisher 01-21-2003 01:32 PM

John (Lipripper)

Keep us updated on reg. changes in our beloved Michigan blue ribbon waters. Any more fly fishing only and/orno kill sections being added / What is now 220+ mile of blue ribbon fly fishing only river miles in Michigan ?

Great Lakes, Great Times

I remember how cold my friends 16 foot metal vhull was on the St Joe during winter steelheading, and I was 20 years longer than. Wow was that cold.

Used to fish The Mo a lot but then in fell in love with waters north of there. Caught my first silver king in the MO, can still remember when he launched out of the water in front of me and then the chase downstream.

If I went winter steelheading now in this cold, I would have to make sure who ever I was with knows CPR! :whoa:

PM Out

removed_by_request 01-21-2003 02:51 PM

But 20 years ago we did not have polar fleece, goretex (Affordable gortex) thinsulate capilenne etc.

If you layer properly and avoid th ewind (nice thing about rivers). A 20d day can be down right plesant. Especially with Steel to be had. We gotta get you out of that office more.

pmflyfisher 01-21-2003 05:26 PM

I have been wearing capilene since the late 1980s I think maybe early 90s.

I wish I could find a Goretex hat like I had in the early 1980s. It was my steelheading hat and then fell apart after 10-12 years of use.

Now have a camoflauge one but I don't think it is as good as the one I had previously.

Don't worry I can take the cold, 4 years in cold USAF flight lines, ten years of down hill and cross country skiing, and I was wellprepared for GL winter steelheading.

Just getting older now and the body is not like it used to be.

PM Out

removed_by_request 01-21-2003 07:00 PM

Don't let age be your enemy. Invest in HGH it works wonders.

The stuff that was around in 1980 was expensive and no where near as good as todays gear. I worked outside back then, a gortex coat was un heard of unless you had $$$ to drop on it. Wool was the way to go and some of the early synthetics, doufold made one that was blended with wool, capielline was a product of the Polar fleece revolution of the 90's. The stuff back then was crap.

Lipripper 01-21-2003 11:45 PM

Hal, I'm not sure about this years changes. Other than the one listed. Last year they made a couple swaps...the took F.O.N.K. off a couple southern streams and disignated a couple northern streams as such. One of which being the upper man. It was a good move.

I like capilene, but, I also like wool for some things. Like socks. Smartwools are the s--t!

Hey...did you check out the Slovenian Scud in Fish and Fly this quarter? Woah!:whoa: Very cool looking bug. The recipe is not given though. I guess you have to go to Slovenia to get one.:mad: Been playin around with it...I'll break the code!:devil:


pmflyfisher 01-22-2003 09:26 AM


Are you saying you do not like the Smartwool socks ?

Yes I have that article and the Czech nymph system. I may be able to get some of the nymphs through my international friends in Switzerland.

Start checking Slovenia fly fishing web sites if there are any ?

I got some new nymph patterns from some PNW sources that look very promising for michigan steelhead, I am keeping them on the QT though until I sufficiently field test in 2003. Like to be a year or so ahead of my competition on the water. :devil:

PM Out

Lipripper 01-22-2003 10:19 AM

No, no, no I'm saying they are THE S***T! As in, the best, or the greatest, or the bomb (well, you might not get that one)....I love em. Can't have enough pairs. I was doing the liner thing with other brands then I made the switch a little over a year ago and it has made a world of difference.


removed_by_request 01-22-2003 11:59 AM

Smartwools are ok have two pairs myself, but patagonia expedition weights with a liner are (IMO) the tops.

Feet never were so warm and dry.

pmflyfisher 01-22-2003 06:50 PM

Its so cold now, I just put my Smartwools on in the house.

They are nice and comfortable I must say.

Perhaps Patagonia is better but just remember you are paying an extra 30% just for the name. All of there stuff is overpriced, its good, but its overpriced.

PM Out

removed_by_request 01-22-2003 06:59 PM

Socks were the same price as the smart wools. I just doubled checked, Simms smartwool $19.95, Patagonia Heavy Capeline $19.00. Simms gear ain't cheap dude, ever price their gore tex jacket???

Simms has the tops wader no doubt but underwear and socks etc Patagonia beats them hands down.


pmflyfisher 01-22-2003 08:01 PM

I don't have the Simms Smartwool but another type bought at Galyans for $15 I think. A matter of fact I don't have anything from Simms. They are way over priced too. Will check out the Patagonia socks, have a fetish for good socks, just like the goretex and thinsulate hats! :hehe:

PM Out

removed_by_request 01-22-2003 08:17 PM

The smartwools I have were sold by Simms. Orvis in the city sell shteirs for $21.00. Maybe price went up, Pat stuff is made with us in mind, only on eissue no talls. I swear by their socks and long johns. They are the bomb none better. I have one of their fireball jackets(cost me $65.00), that bloody thing is warmer than my best thinsulate coat.

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