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RayStachelek 02-26-2002 07:10 PM

Who is this man?
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You've seen him plying his trade at many fly shows and demonstrations. :D :hehe:

Bob Pink 02-26-2002 07:26 PM

Gawd Ray! You have the goods on everyone don't you! I thought Joe paid you destroy that photo of him in that shirt!

Slinger 03-01-2002 02:42 AM

I wish I had spent a lot more time watching him at the Saltwater Edge thing. After seeing Bob`s black flatwing I have to study more at the benches of the pros. My flatwings always flop over and end up looking like decievers.

Bob Pink 03-01-2002 05:11 AM

If you build that little pillow before laying the hackles on top of the shank you should be able to stack them, one or two wraps for each just to keep them ready and then pinch the back end of the pillow with your off hand and really wrap the whole assembled wing tight. I also leave about 1/2 of the hackle stem bare in front of the pillow so I can lash that tight to the shank. Gives some more support for keeping things in line.

One of those 'touch' things like tieing off bucktail so it doesn't splay out too much.......

I think joe might be at Wilmington, you can get some time with him there.

FredA 03-01-2002 06:53 AM

I've watched Joe a couple of times and have learned - you can't help but learn. But my flatwings are still butt ugly and so are the deceivers. Doesn't matter, deceiver or flatwing, the hackles still end up at 45 degrees. When my wife make fun of them I tell her "well I want them to look like crippled bait".

Joe Cordeiro 03-01-2002 07:54 AM

Re: Who is this man?

Originally posted by RayStachelek
You've seen him plying his trade at many fly shows and demonstrations. :D :hehe:
:whoa: Hey Ray Nice Shot!! I so glad you added the "99% natual" , I be wearing the other shirt with the stripers in Wilminton,have your camera ready and of course I'll have to see Jake so I can have a new color shirt. Thanks for the plug :p

Joe Cordeiro 03-01-2002 08:08 AM

zzThe Pillow and the Pinch
For all you "twisted" hackle spinners:

The first and utmost important item is to manage your hackle with just a single wrap ontop of the "PILLOW" , after you load all the hackle and the flash and don't forget to put the braid underneath the hook shank. Next step:you must not be faint of heart pinch the pilow,feel the pillow and pinch wrap on-top of the pillow then behind and bunch everything forward with your thumb and index finger and wrap your 6/0 UNI non waxed thread forward grabbing all the stems and bearing it all down onto the shank. TIP: When you start the wrap counter act the tourque from the forward wrap by twisting the pillow towards you . This will maintain it's position on the shank "FLAT "

Hope to see everyone at the WILMINTON Show see me at the Saltwater Edge and Kenney Abrames Booth:eyecrazy: :o

Roop 03-01-2002 09:29 AM

I got to tell you, not being a flatwing pro, when I had a chance to watch Todd Murphy & Joe tie, I was most impressed with the pillow & the single wrap. I used to crank down on everything & glue it but now have incorporated this style into all my flies ( even those with clouser eyes ;) ) and find it makes the whole process flow a lot easier.

Just my $.02


Adrian 03-01-2002 10:27 AM

Jeff, I too was a "Crank and Glue" man until I watched Joe and Todd doing their stuff. It's getting better but I'm still not there yet. Each time I watch I learn a bit more. The single wrap of thread was a major breakthrough.

Forming the pillow seems to be pretty critical also - sometimes it comes out fine, sometimes like a solid lump which defeats the object.

Great to see you here Joe and look forward to saying Hi at Wilmington.

DFix 03-01-2002 12:53 PM

Re: Re: Who is this man?

Originally posted by Joe Cordeiro
:whoa: Hey Ray Nice Shot!! I so glad you added the "99% natual" , I be wearing the other shirt with the stripers in Wilminton,have your camera ready and of course I'll have to see Jake so I can have a new color shirt. Thanks for the plug :p
Joe, you aren't even THINKING of competing with Jake for 'loudest' (I mean nicest :rolleyes: ) shirt, are you??? :whoa: :whoa: :whoa:

Welcome aboard.

RayStachelek 03-02-2002 09:23 AM


On the way to the Wilmington show, stop by Federal Hill and pick up some St. Joseph's Day Conoles'. Maybe Caserta's for some skippies. You'll have more people come over to your table than a Narragansett bay bluefish blitz. The smell will draw 'em in like a chum slick. :hehe:

John Desjardins 03-02-2002 09:40 AM

Pillow ?
Inquiring minds want to know. What is the pillow made of? Is this similiar to putting a wrap of dubbing on a dryfly before putting the tail fibers on?

RayStachelek 03-02-2002 11:33 AM

John -

The pillows are used for the basic foundation so the saddle hackles stay flat in place. As I recall, pillows are used in dry fly constructions to spley tail barbacles or lift them up off plane. The problems with tying saddle hackles flat are they want to roll over. Sometimes this can be minimized by where you trim the stem feather. Stems have round and oval cross-sectional areas in them. Ovals will stay in place better. This might not be possible though if you want a desired length of feather. You have no choice than to where you want it trimmed. Tying thread also has an effect. A flat braid tends to cause less problems.

Pillows are generally formed by the fluff of the same saddle hackle. You dub them on to the thread and wind them just before the bend in the hook before tying the first hackle. This gives you a flater softer area to stabilize the process.

The process I use most often requires no preping, but takes a little practice. This goes back to my dry fly days of tying duck wing quill feathers. I simple make sure that not only the stems of the feather touch the threaded shank but also part of the feather itself. Roll it over on both sides of the hook shank, now pinch it and make a few loose wraps with the thread through your fingers. Pull tight. This process might be better explained in older trout tying books.

Joe C. is the master of Pillow Talk.

John Desjardins 03-02-2002 11:43 AM

Thanks Ray, you answered my question.

Penguin 03-12-2002 08:51 PM

...Lou Costello...
...but ties like Leonardo D'Vinci !!!

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