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mayflyman 12-08-2001 12:01 AM

Compound or Weight forward Leaders
Who still ties the weight forward leader? I learned about this in the early 80's. (No... 1980's:rolleyes: not 1880's)
Your leader tapers down as normal, then tapers back up then down again to the tippet. This is suppose to aid in turning over bulky flies or to streighten long leaders out fully.

A typical example might be:
.021 .019 .017 .015 .013 .011 .009 .011 .013 .011 .009 .007 tippet section
These are diameters of leader material, the length's will be up to your own judgment.
Again, nothing is chiseled in stone... :rolleyes: It's just a different way to do things.

NrthFrk16 12-08-2001 12:47 AM

Umpqua is selling leaders very similar to that design now...they claim, as you do, that they aide in turing over large flies.

juro 12-08-2001 10:18 AM

That's interesting but since the first reduction in diam/grains occurs after the line taper, I can't see why it would be better than a taper that graduates down from the line itself? Won't the additional back taper slow the energy wave down?

Two things I've done in SWFF situations (large flies):

a) cut the first foot of SW flyline off - it's level anyway. Not for trout lines but for SW and sinking tip construction using shooting heads

b) build the leader with more stout material and less reduction over the length of the leader.

Using clear intermediate allows shorter leaders, and sinking lines don't need a long leader most of the time anyway.

I have a hard time with long floating line leaders on Spey rods when the fly is too big or heavy. I don't throw any weighted flies for steelhead at all so I don't really have this problem, and with big flies for winter fishing the sinktip and shorter leader turns over big flies easily.

Sometimes I am not the most skilled at delicate trout presentations :rolleyes: maybe a little slowdown and speedup will help?

I am skeptical. The back taper on a FWF line is to reduce down to the running line so you can shoot the line, it doesn't help turn anything over. Just try casting 20 past the head on a Teeny, QD, Depthcharge or other radical back taper line and you'll see what I mean. For what it's worth, I would have to give it a high BS rating. I could be wrong, but it sure sounds wrong.


mayflyman 12-08-2001 11:22 AM

weight forward leaders
I learned about this from a book I once owned. It was by master fly fisherman, Ernie Schweibert...
Back in the early days of sport fly fishing...
I believe the book was called "Matching the Hatch."
I might be wrong about the book's title, however it was the late Mr. Schweibert's idea that I am quoting from.
He was classified as highly as Lee Wulff for his fly fishing knowledge. :)

juro 12-08-2001 11:46 AM

I see... that would indicate that it's something tried and true by an expert trout angler, so that explains a lot. In the rough and tumble world of SWFF driving that energy wave as directly as possible is the key for big flies (sometimes over 10" long) whereas when "matching the hatch" the long leaders and fine tippets would benefit from a kicker in the leader. Well that explains it. I'll give it a try!

pmflyfisher 12-09-2001 10:18 AM

When did Mr. Schwiebert pass away ? I missed that. Met him in the late sixties while fishing on the Catskills Beaverkill River for trout. Great guy, gave me some good tips. Have a couple of this books. He grew up in Chicago, learned fly fishing on the Michigan waters I now primarily fish. Wrote some great short stories on fly fishing for steelhead in Michigan and on the Pere Marquette (PM) River particularly. His book the "The Complete Schwiebert" Truman Talley Books, has some great steelhead and salmon, trout flyfishing stories. One short story in particular "Portrait of the Pere Marquette" is very emotional for me, having fished all of the areas he describes in this story. Many other great fly fishing stories in this book. Highly recommended, for fly fisherman world wide.

Sad two of my boyhood fly fishing idols now passed Lee Wulff and now Ernest Schwiebert.

Also met Lee and Joan Wulff at their fly shop iand fishing school n the Catskills in the seventies.

Actually I do not know who my fly fishing idols are now.

Any one have any idea who they are these days ? Must be highly knowledgeable, well travelled, all aspects of fly fishing world wide, and an excellent oral and written communicator who advocates the history and preservation of the fly fishing sport.

Both Lee and Joan Wulff and Ernest Schwiebert met that criteria I believe.

But who is it now and for the future ?


Penguin 12-09-2001 10:42 AM

...did someone say FF idol?
Let's see...a wealth of knowledge, well rounded in most, if not all, and willing to share the art in all aspects and able to represent himself to beginner and expert alike...tends to CATCH while fishing as others look on in wonder (among other things) to appear/disappear in wet sandy waders without leaving any tracks, much less tears on rice paper laid over soft sand...
I am, of course, referring to "the beach ninja"...(my "current" idol)

pmflyfisher 12-09-2001 11:11 AM

The remaining old timer I can think of that may qualify is Lefty
Kreh. Anyone else ?

Remember names Like Ted Trueblood, Joe Brooks, Lee Wulff, Ernest Schwiebert who were the overall flyfishing icons of from the sixties onward. Perhaps Vince Marinaro also is in that class but he was mainly trout fishing as I recall. All of the rest did all of the fly fishing venues. trout, salmon, salt water, etc.. It became their profession and passion.

"The Beach Ninjy" I am not familiar with.


mayflyman 12-09-2001 11:58 AM

Ernie Schwiebert
Ernie Schweibert passed away August 23rd. 1983 :(
It was a cold day that summer.

Sorry people, I gave the wrong date (if any)
As soon as I find the correct date, I'll post it.
Again, sorry for jumping the gun.

pmflyfisher 12-09-2001 12:16 PM

Not sure if 1983 is right, maybe that is 1993 ?

I have his book Matching the Hatch in front of me which is dated
as first printing September 1990. I bought it in either 1990 or 1991 as I recall. He was alive as of 1990, per the book's cover and living in Princeton, NJ.

Will check it out further.


Penguin 12-09-2001 12:30 PM

beach ninja...
...Once you've seen him in action, you'll not soon forget the experience...he's like a pro-athlete who makes everything look so "easy"...a tour d' force... Beach Ninja=Juro

pmflyfisher 12-09-2001 12:35 PM

OK I have got you now. Will be prepared if that direct life experience should ever occur to me. I will need his wisdom for those Washington steelhead trips.


striblue 12-09-2001 03:01 PM

Joe Brooks goes back further than the 60's. He wrote the first authority ,atleast as to Saltwater flyfishing, in 1950. He had been flyfishing well into the 1930's. The first real publisized "Light Tackle" saltwater fishing was promoted by the exploits of Zane Gray from 1910 to 1930... In his book "Tales of Fishes" he advocated fish conservation and the true sport of ligh tackle for biggame.

pmflyfisher 12-09-2001 03:35 PM

Yes you are right, also I forgot about Ted Trueblood. Lots of past great fly fisherman, writers, historians, and conservationists.

There was also Al Mcglane

But who are the present ones today ?

I cannot think of anyone in the class of these past gentlemen.


mayflyman 12-09-2001 06:31 PM

Todays great fly fishermen

Originally posted by pmflyfisher

But who are the present ones today ?

I cannot think of anyone in the class of these past gentlemen.

How about Lefty Kreh?
Larry Dahlberg?
John Whitlock?

I would rank them in or near the same class. All have done above-and-beyond their part to promote our beloved sport.

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