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juro 01-02-2013 12:50 PM

Flyfishing Forum, 2013
Hello all, hope everyone had a great holiday season with stockings full of flyfishing goodies.

With the new year, I will be facing a decision on whether to continue with the Forum or pass the torch to a new owner. The trouble of seeking donations to keep the site running is just more than I can handle with family medical issues, major changes in my personal life, and the need to stay focused on a wide range of challenges.

I will still be guiding and teaching but to keep juggling so many balls in the air is getting impossible.

So I am faced with the choices of (1) finding a more reliable means of supporting the site costs (2) selling the rights to the site or (3) retiring the project after over ten years of labor of love to keep the lights on.

I have put so much into this place that its hard, but I can not keep the efforts up as before. As it stands now the site owes hundreds of dollars for server cost alone.

So I am leaning toward selling to an interested party after many offers in the past that I have declined.

What are your thoughts? How motivated are people to maintain the resource as it is? Ideas? Opinions? Farewells?

As always, the podium is open...

OC 01-02-2013 03:54 PM

Hi Juro,

First off, Happy New Year.

You have to do what is important to you.

Over the years, many years I have enjoyed the site and have met many wonderful fly fishermen. Everything about the site especially in the early years helped us fight many good battles to save steelhead. But now times have changed, anyway for me and the friends I have met here are more important than the battle. There are other ways now to get the word out for steelhead.

But honestly I think the forum thing is over for most forums. I can't stand the sailboat cruising forums that I go to now and then as they are nothing but lots of foolish people and I guess I must be one for going to them. But I think your forum had a great run and now it is time for you to move on one way or another. I think that would be best for you as all our lives change.

Hoping to see you out here in Oregon or back in New England before we go sailing again in June. By the way fishing is really good on the Hood right now, but damn cold this week.

Best of luck on what you do.


Steve Wrye:smokin:

Jim Miller 01-02-2013 05:27 PM

Try About $7 a month to keep Add Free. No other costs. :wink:
Wishing you the best!

Jim Miller

Penguin 01-06-2013 09:13 AM

'too many unanswered question...
Jim brings up a good point... 'Why not consider Pro Boards...?! :confused:
Many have jumped ship because of the deafening silence heard when questions were asked but replies were never received...
Top Secret flies... the mythical wooden dory... expenses explained... donations accounted for... spending itemized... et al...
Much like the Chatham Inlet, things continue to evolve and the only constant is change...
Just as the seals have frustrated and driven away the South Beach fly fisherman, certain issues here have silenced the once enjoyable and prolific banter
and have stifled fraternal camaraderie...
I long for the "Old Southway Daze"... the shoal in front of the Chatham Light is gone and won't return any time soon... but another better one is always a possibility...
only time will tell...
'my .02

Penguin 01-07-2013 10:27 AM

I had hoped for more...

Stevo 01-07-2013 11:52 AM

... or even

Blue Horseshoe 01-07-2013 12:35 PM

crickets, and church bells....lets look at it this way....always another perspective. :razz:

in all seriousness...this ai a great resource......please let me know juro if i can donate to keep site going.


juro 01-07-2013 10:11 PM

See what I mean? :roll:

Here's an accounting for you - I just paid $383.70 out of pocket. No donations toward server costs have been received since last fall. The forum runs on MySQL over licensed VBulletin on php with a load that required several upgrades to the point it is now, but the payments had to be cleared to migrate to a lower cost server which is again a LOT of work in and of itself.

Anyway guys - you're welcome! I hope you enjoyed the platform provided for over 10 years for your fly-tying self-promotion and the building of lifetime friendships and memorable experiences like the mecca just to name one small drop in the bucket - or perhaps information to help exploit exchange rates and enjoy sea bass fishing that puts yours to shame.

You see I really don't harbor any animosity as such, but I thought you could use a dose of what it's like to listen to the entitled ones demanding of the person trying to do something good for the community of anglers. Thanks, feels great. Say could you guys provide a forum like this so I can wear these shoes for a while instead of mine? I promise I will live up to your standards.

However Dan - I truly appreciate the gesture. I hope the resource continues to be worthwhile for you no matter which direction it goes however I can say that it will be a much bigger professionally managed and run venture going forward.

Jim Miller 01-08-2013 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by juro
See what I mean? :roll:
Say could you guys provide a forum like this so I can wear these shoes for a while instead of mine? I promise I will live up to your standards.


We HAVE......for $7.00 per month. ($84.00 per year) See suggestion above, it was said with the best of intentions.

There is currently less readership here...... but if there were more readership, the price might go up to $14.00 a month.

But be advised that no one is making a profit at $7.00/month. That is just what it costs to keep it online. It is not a money making venture. But if you desired you could sell adds to beef up a profit and defrey the $7/month cost. Maybe even make some money if you so desired.

There is virtually no maintainence time for the membership or your time will be freed up to deal with more pressing issues.

Take a look at Proboards if you want to keep this site running.....maybe some of the guys will come back.

Send me a PM and I can tell you about the details.


juro 01-08-2013 10:17 AM

Thanks Jim!

Your comments were taken as helpful only, however the legacy of this site demanded a dedicated server. To your point, new offerings have emerged and prices have come way down as has traffic and migration to a new platform is definitely the way to go.

A few problems stood in the way - back payments and migration. That's why I paid off the balance out of pocket to move things along and with much bigger issues in my life (surgery for loved ones, family changes, financial stress, etc) I've not had the luxury of making this my primary focus.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the suggestion. How big of a DB did you migrate?

BTW - expect big changes, but I am curious.

Jim Miller 01-08-2013 11:44 AM

I do not want to sound like I know it all...but here is my take on forums and associated things. I will speak to my forum because that is what I am most familiar with.

Because it is non-profit, the forum is run like a club. It is a closed forum with invited membership of friends. It also avoids a lot of issues by not being public.

I suppose one has to determine the rational for the forum's existance, and then build the forum membership accordingly. For me, it was solely a means to stay in touch with fishing friends and exchange info and ideas. Profit was not a factor....the idea of profit was actually something we avoided.

If profit is the rational, then I suppose you want as many page views as possible to satisfy the sponsors. But if you are not for profit then you strive for the most active and contributing membership. Lurkers and silent members do not help the forum in this scenario. You want the most informative and benificial page view ratio.

But, it could be set up as a profit based public forum (with paying sponsers)

To remain add free and have Proboards host it the cost runs:

$7/ month gets one 50,000 page views
$14/month gets one 100,000 page views

With approx. 100 members ACTIVE... we do not even approach the 50,000 page view mark. (maybe SpeyPages or The Hull Truth generate more monthly views ?).

From the number of posts seen here....i would doubt that we are approaching 50,000 page views a month. If so, the membership is not engaged or actively participating?? (lots of views...but no posts)

The ProBoards software allows all of the extras we all have come to use. PM's, photo posting, notifications, spell checking, etc. The software is intuitive and easily allows one to structure the forum and get it running. It appears as professional as any I have seen. Even for a "non-programming" guy like was a 2-3 day setup time to get up and running. Pretty easy. :smokin:

I know nothing about forum rights and migrating to another host. But...why not just start NEW? Is that a possibility for you?

Good luck in these difficult times of forum readership


Blue Horseshoe 01-08-2013 03:47 PM


sad to see you go. i wish you the best of outcomes in all your issues....and may i add that i have learned so much from this forum from past and present discussions that it was a priceless education, and i truly appreciate it. I hope to be able to meet you in the future somewhere between the squire, and captain kid; maybe even do a little casting. again thank you!


please pm me with contact info so we may keep in touch, and my offer still stands

juro 01-09-2013 07:47 AM

Jim -

Again thanks for the info. Not sure you understand the situation as I have explained it and it looks like you had zero data migration concerns starting from scratch, and took advantage of new low cost packages out there. The situation here has changed but the infrastructure is still locked in at levels supporting historical highs.

Best of luck though and if you ever do send that link I'll check it out.

Dan -

You bet! I still have my escape in Chatham, will be guiding the flats as ( and teaching both single and Spey casting more actively than ever. Aside from that would enjoy just getting out to fish or some steamahz and a beeyah at the Squiyah anytime.

All -

This site isn't going anywhere in fact my bet is that it's really goin' places it hasn't been before. Stay tuned...

Jim Miller 01-09-2013 08:10 AM

Here ya go:

MartyG 01-09-2013 08:33 AM

In brief I hope anything that can be done to keep it up and running at a lower cost should be explored.

As a fairly new fly fisher (5-6 years) this site has been immensely helpful from a research standpoint as well as a conversational standpoint.

The stories and pictures inspire me to explore new fisheries, learn to tie flies and pass along what I've learned to others.

This forum is awesome. Keep it going.

Thanks Juro.


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