Fly Fishing Forum

Fly Fishing Forum (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/index.php)
-   Lines, Loops and Leaders (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/forumdisplay.php?f=34)
-   -   Backing to Fly Line Connection... (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=24421)

Doc Garrett 12-11-2006 10:53 AM

Backing to Fly Line Connection...
 
The application is for big game fishing with 12 weight line. I know that I will be into my backing from time to time and I am concerned that the ususal nail knot or double nail knot is not the smoothest thing for running though the guides. A friend recommended a bimini twist for the backing and a Drew's Speed Loop braided connector for the fly line. He claims this is the strongest connection and flows through the guides easily.

I am a little concerned with the loop connector to the fly line. I use Scientific Anglers Wet Cel monofilament core line. If the coating should fail, there goes the loop connector. If I remove the coating, how well will the braided connector grab the monofilament?

Any suggestions appreciated...

josko 12-11-2006 12:31 PM

I would use an Albright knot, possibly to doubled-up backing. I've never had an Albright get stuck in the guides, but a little pliobond on the knot will make hangups een less likely.

teflon_jones 12-11-2006 07:19 PM

I'd use a blood knot.

reely 12-11-2006 08:37 PM

I second the Albright knot.

jimS 12-12-2006 07:52 AM

The standard backing/flyline connection for big game applications is a loop-to-loop connection for 100% strength. This approach provides ease in attaching/removing flylines.

A 30-turn bomini with a double surgeon's knot is tied in the backing. A braided, double catch loop is attached to the flyline. This system clears guides and tiptop easily.

Backing to arbor on the fly reel is also important. With standard dacron backing, wrap the tag end of the backing around the arbor twice and tie a six turn uni-knot.

An albright connection is about 85 per cent.

BigDave 12-12-2006 09:40 AM

I would agree with what Jim said. If you make double trap loops from Gudebrod 50# braided mono you will have no problem. The "chinese finger trap" principle grips a large area of the coating and will not bite in and strip it off the core. Go loop to loop with a bimini in the Dacron and you have a very smooth/strong connection.

There is a good explanation of how to make the braided loops on Dan Blanton's webside FYI.

Doc Garrett 12-12-2006 09:58 AM

JimS - Thanks. That’s what I was looking for. (Nothing wrong with the Albright knot, but I have had them fail on big fish.)

My only concern with the full coating contact for the braided loop is the point of failure is just in front of the braided connector. If the coating gives in this area, then the braided portion can strip coating from the core with ease - bye-bye line, bye-bye fish. That could get expensive...

What was recommended to me was to strip the coating, run the braided portion up onto the coating. So you have 3/4 of the braided loop covering the core and 1/4 covering the coating. Then use UV Knot Sense on the braided portion and then the heat shrink tube. I guess the only way to know for sure is to tie up a few variations and do some destruction testing...

BigDave thanks for the tip. Will look at Dan Blanton's web site.

Smcdermott 12-12-2006 03:48 PM

How big a game we talking about? I've landed bluefin to 30+lbs using a triple nail knot loop in the fly line attached to a 50 turn bimini and double surgeons loop in the gel spun backing. For bigger fish (I have yet to accomplish this feat) I really like the First Light Anglers rigging technique which utilizes hollow dacron looped sleeves on both ends of the fly line. You can buy their Bluefin video for $20 and it includes a rigging demonstration after some great action footage.

Sean

Doc Garrett 12-13-2006 03:26 PM

Sean - Typically my big game fishing experience has been chasing tarpon in Marathon FL. For 2007, I have opted to fish Madagascar for giant trivially and sail fish. If I ever had any equipment problems in Marathon, the shops were not too far away. In Madagascar, you either bring it or forget it. Equipment and rigging become a little more important that far away from home. The last thing I want to do is start donating fly line to the fishing gods.

JR SPEY 12-14-2006 10:08 AM

My rigging is loop-to-loop. I use the braided loop method described by Trey Combs in his book on billfishing. I've caught about 20 sailfish on the one loop installed several years ago. I just replaced it using the same system for my upcoming trip to Guatemala. There are lots of correct ways to do the loop method and some don't even involve braided loops, but Trey's system has never failed me, and I now use the same system for almost all my setups including speylines.

Eddie 12-22-2006 09:52 AM

I also use the method described in Trey Comb's book.
Braided dacron loop on the flyline and a bimini on the backing.
Really a great book: Blue Water Flyfishing

rogcon 12-27-2006 11:44 AM

In using the the loop-to-loop with a braided mono double catch loop on the fly line- Why can't you splice a loop into the 30 lb. dacron backing. I have never had
a spliced backing loop fail w/ ~ 8 in. "spliced" inside the core. This gives you the smallest profile connection. If others have had problems w/ a spliced loop in their backing I'd be interested to hear about it as it might make me change my thinking.

jamie 12-29-2006 08:52 AM

Usually loop to loop with bimini on the GSP and braided loop on the end of the flyline.

Has anyone ever tried hollow stuff like this PowerPro Hollow for backing? It looks as though it might make a neat connection with a finger trap. Although you would sacrifice the flexibility of a loop to loop.

jimS 12-29-2006 09:20 AM

rogcon: you can make a double trap loop in 30lb dacron, but most bluewater types don't because of wear in the fragile loop area.

Jamie: Power Pro and Bionic Braid are quite slippery. The best knot is a 60-turn bimini with a double surgeon's knot in the loop for connection to the flyline.

Eddie 01-02-2007 07:44 AM

I don't think that PP is hollow.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:52 AM.


Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)