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-   -   Nail Knotted Loop ? (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=24256)

n1gdo 11-13-2006 03:23 PM

Nail Knotted Loop ?
 
I tried the Thread Loop (just winding thread around the fly line to hold a loop) and didnt like its bulkiness...

When I tied 2 nail knots with 12lb mono on the end of the fly line it holds a loop really well and presents a very small image.... seems very strong too..

Problem: the loop is off center... I am afraid that after casting the off center loop will make for a poor leader landing... I believe the tightening of the second nail knot is the culprit...

Is there a way to make the Nail Knot Loop straight ?

Thank you.

sean 11-13-2006 03:33 PM

How close are you putting the nail knots together? Further apart seems to help with the kinking problem.

I think you will be surprised to find just one nail knot works great. No real need for two. I have never had one fail on steelhead or stripers. I only use one now.

-sean

n1gdo 11-13-2006 04:11 PM

Nail Knot distance and One Knot
 
I found an old fly line that a pro had done up for me and he had the nail knots spread like you indicated !! Mine were too close together...

You only use ONE nail knot and it holds!!! ?? thats great... how big a fish have you hit on that system... also what did you use to lock the knot ? I have UV knot sense and will try that...

thanks for the response... most appreciated..

sean 11-13-2006 05:17 PM

Well I used to do two as well but did not like the added noise through the guides. When you think about it all you are doing is a nail knot. Most guys use just one nail knot to secure their leader to the fly line so this loop knot is not any worse. Plus you have the flyline pulled over on itself creating even more friction so it should actually be stronger than a nail knot. I have not caught anything really huge, steelhead up to 16 pounds and a 38" striper that was pushing 20lbs and the single held. I do know guys that have taken 25lb steelhead using this setup without any issues whatsoever.

Actually a couple weeks ago I probably had the striper of a lifetime on and my rod broke before the loop knot :roll:

-sean

n1gdo 11-14-2006 06:13 AM

Knot Coating ?
 
Sean...thanks so much for your tip about moving the second Nail Knot back a bit.. it worked like a charm.... and passed the FRANK test....I put a screwdriver through the loop and pulled as hard as I could and the knots never budged !!!

For some reason I have an aversion to just the one nail knot even though your logic is that we attach butt sections with one nail knot all the time... I guess I just like that safety factor of the second nail knot... either way I have a much cleaner loop now thanks to you...

FINAL QUESTION... do you coat the nail knots and with what ? is UV Knot Sense good ? since I have some of that..

Again thank you for taking the time to help me..

frank

jimS 11-14-2006 02:01 PM

Frank, be careful using a single nail knot on intermediate flylines. A nail knot tends to cut through the intermediate outer shell and then slips off the monofilament core. Two nail knots seem to work. Floating and sinktip lines don't appear to be an issue with nail knots.

A whipped loop is a better approach, and even better, is a braided double catch loop.

Newer flylines now come with an integral loop on both ends. Rio in particular, has been doing this for a couple of years.

As a side note, try a three-turn sheet knot for attaching you leader to a loop in your flyline. It transfer energy efficiently without the non-linear loop-to-loop approach.

sean 11-14-2006 02:19 PM

Yep UV knot sense is what I use. You can build it up in such a way so the knot slides easier through the guides.

As for intermediates it seems to depend on the brand. My airflo 40+ lines take a nail knot pretty well and I think that is what Juro uses with good success with a simple nail knot for his leader connection. Sure he will chime in. Also you get some added friction laying the intermediate onto itself when creating a loop instead of the straight nail knot which helps as well.

I have not had great luck with the integral loops. Too bulky and stick in my rod tip. I can make a much smaller one by hand so I usually cut them off.

2 nail knots is probably the safe bet and when one of my singles fail I will join you with the 2 knots. For now I will live dangerously :)

-sean

Dble Haul 11-14-2006 02:58 PM

The Cortland clear intermediates are pretty notorious for nail knot slippage. I know this from personal experience. :mad:

n1gdo 11-15-2006 06:14 AM

Thank you all.....
 
Great info.... really helped me....

JimS great to hear from you... where is your next trip ????

The Sheep Knot you mentioned...is that a Sheep Bend ? It almost looks like it could come loose but knowing you it must be a killer knot.... drop a line to me..

Thanks again everyone....


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