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-   -   ZEC AGREEMENTS (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=23969)

Green Ghost 09-27-2006 09:21 AM

ZEC AGREEMENTS
 
Hi everyone,

Now that 2006 is winding down and we consider fishing in 2007, I was wondering if anyone knew the extent of, or the details of the advertised agreements between the local ZEC's and Outfitters.

billg 09-27-2006 10:45 PM

There are mutliple agreements on the Gaspe for the next 4 years. The Zecs are mailing out their draw info as we speak and the pertinent info will be included in with the draw card applications at least as far as Gaspe and Pabos are concerned; I cannot say for sure about Grande River or the Baie of Chaleur Zecs/Wildlife Reserve.

Unfortunately it does not look like the 75-25 rule will be in place for next season but I am extremely confident that it will be there for 2008. There are some other potential changes as well but it is premature to delve into them at this point. As they become more timely I will certainly pass them along.

There is 1 big change in Gaspe for next year (aside from the block of rods for myself) as well as one other potential big change for next year. First, the Pavillion will now be accessible to everyone through a phone draw in November. In the past dates have been reserved ahead of time in the same manner that outfitters set up their calendar. However, because it is a wildlife reserve (and wildlife reserves are intended to give equal opportunity at access to all with priority towards residents) they must now have a draw.

Second, Gaspe is also sending out a survey to its clients asking about opening the season in May (starting on the 25th). If there is enough interest it will take effect next May.

For what it is worth, fishing has been as good as it gets the past week with the rain we have gotten. The York is still up over a foot and the gates nearly came down on both the York and St. Jean. Lots of fresh salmon making their way up the rivers at this time. When the end of the season counts were done there was not much of a difference in the counts from July; there would be now if they were to count again.

Looking for some feedback here from those who fish in Gaspe. Do you think that sector 7 on the Dartmouth should be C&R like sector 12 on the York? I believe this will be put forth next spring at their annual meeting.

Bill Greiner

Salar89 09-28-2006 12:43 PM

are you employed by the gaspe zec ? The govt" ?

billg 09-28-2006 09:27 PM

Hey "Vince":

I am suprised to see this user id again.

I am all set with my water; did you get any?

Bill

Salar36 09-28-2006 10:20 PM

Hey Bill, I am just a bit surprise to see you so arrogant...what will happen if the general meeting of ZEC Gaspe decide you have no rod? Will you be set?

billg 09-28-2006 10:38 PM

Pierre:

Arrogance is your middle name; I am simply confident that the members of the zec will approve the deal; it is a WIN WIN deal. I believe that the CA of Zec Gaspe supported this negotiated deal unanumously. The people who sit on the board are respected by their fellow local anglers and their support for this deal will carry a lot of weight at the meeting. I would expect that the members will, in turn, support this at their General Assembly. Ask YC what he thinks about the agreement and whether it is a win-win. You will probably be suprised.

If I am wrong there is always a plan B; I am sure you would love to know what that is.

Good luck on the Matapedia; any salmon river is a great river. My 2 cents relates not to a river in and of itself; simply selfish management decisions.

Bill

Salar36 09-28-2006 10:47 PM

Bill;

Sorry, here we don't have a middle name. The only name I know for me is Pierre Manseau.

Is your plan B is to sell your bussiness to native? If I remember, when we met on a "Table Saumon" , I think this was your plan B..? I might be wrong... but , I think you said " If I don't get these rods, they will get them"

But you know Bill, this is just salmon fishing...


Oh. You should go on the french board, I think Quebec people would like to learn from you...

billg 09-28-2006 11:02 PM

Pierre:

Nice guess but keep trying! Plenty of options on the table; after all I own 1,000 acres and have riparian fishing rights on the best pools of the Malbaie. There are very few places in the world where people can actually own salmon pools and fishing rights. I am thankful that Quebec is one of those few places. There is a lot of value in these holdings. For one, the Nature Conservency of Canada (a great organization) owns land in the estaury of the Malbaie (as do I) and they are very, very interested in my holidngs along the river. If the Malbaie wasn't C&R maybe you would have an interest as well?

This year I had more Quebec anglers than in my previous 3 years combined. None was aware of bickering on french websites. If some people on this or other websites are upset because of negotiated agreements WITHIN the 20% regulation then that is too bad. The zecs can do as they please within the 20%. You yourself felt that way in the past and last year when we had lunch on the Grand Cas you didn't seem to be that concerned with the outfitters getting rods in the 20% as long as there was minimal impact on resident anglers. My rods on the Grande and Pabos are not an issue for you since you never fish there (can't keep big fish there) and they have small numbers of resident anglers compared to their overall client base.

I do support the FQSA despite your arrogance and jealousy and will continue to support them in the future. Your President is a good man and has the ability to see the big picture and does not get caught up in your tirades.

With the 40-50 mm of rain tomorrow I am sure you will have a wonderful time on the Matapedia. Tightlines!

Bill

Salar36 09-28-2006 11:21 PM

Bill

I have always defended the 20% as a way to finance little rivers. What you mention is right. If you want to use the fact I am on the board of the FQSA, no problem, I can resign right now. I can use my own time for something else than having a perpetual fight. The only reason I am there is my love for salmon fishing. In 2006, I had more than 10 people I initiated (sorry if the words are not good) in salmon fishing. All new fighters for salmon situation.

But since you mention the 20%, you remember we also suggested to have this to be allowed by a draw. I can understand Grande Rivière and Pabos, undersold. But Gaspé?

Now you talk with contain. I can too.

My first post was against the fact you were very bad with people I love. Matapedia people. I know about their realty, you don't.

Now, I will shut it down. But if you want more contain, you will find me.

juro 09-29-2006 12:51 AM

Gentlemen -

These debates have some important matters worthy of all of our consideration in the mutual interest of the salmon.

However these important issues seem to be occluded by name-calling and offensive innuendo.

I would rather not exercise my right to refuse service to anyone so please lighten it up.

Keep in mind that your participation on this forum is a privilege, not a right and I will take the shortest path to end troublemaking as I see fit.

thanks

Salar-1 09-30-2006 09:37 AM

Pierre arrogant ??? NO friggin' way man !!! He's just one other salmonfisherman who believes,and has the he capabilty of fighting for what he (and 99.9 % of the rest of us Quebecois Salmon fisherfolk )believe in . Arrogant? no , passionate? YEP !!

Green Ghost 10-08-2006 08:42 AM

ZEC AGREEMENTS
 
Gentlemen,

The reason I posted the question was an attempt to get details on the agreements in order to evaluate for myself the potential for the ZEC to run a fair public drawing.

A couple thoughts

1) If Bill g has 20 % of the 3 Gaspe rivers limited zones before the drawing, throughout the season, that is fine and it should allow him to run a business. Especially combined with the advertised PABOS and Grande Riviere arrangements.
(there are also 50 rod days allotted for riparian rights)

2) That would mean that we, "the public" (Resident and NR) are now playing the winter drawing for 80 % of the seasons allotted Rods. Actually it is probably 40% during the winter draw. The rest being 48 hours water.

3) In my opinion, that SHOULD mean that the winter drawing will not be overloaded with card entries from Bill G. And I hope the ZEC made this stipulation!

Does anyone know what the ZEC has decided?? How it will be a fair drawing or what the details of the Agreements are?? Even the question What do we have left to play for??

The clock is ticking.

QuebecSporting 10-08-2006 09:27 AM

My Thoughts
 
I think if somebody wishes to enter the draws, it would be suited to have his/her
name and his/her address on the card, No??

Not the name of a participant and the address of his / her representative on the card!!!!!!! :mad:

Asa fisherman, I would have the pleasure to receive a confirmation if I was drawn and satisfied to know that my representative effectively entered my cards. Such as agreed!!

As a business, I demonstrate transparency and prove that there are no fictitious names and addresses..

It would avoid an overload in the draws and would give a better chance to all!


http://www.quebecsporting.com/Photos/075.JPG

Ann

Green Ghost 10-08-2006 10:36 AM

ZEC AGREEMENTS
 
All good points here Quebec Sporting!

The single most important point I am trying to make is..

If you have 20 % allready, then overload the draws (even with real names), then you also enter names on a daily basis for additional rods from the 48 hours draw, in the end you could end up with maybe 30-40 % of all of the fishing on all three rivers in Gaspe throughout the season. A virtual monopoly.

The ZEC should not allow an outfitter that allready has 20% of the rivers [/B]or thier clients [/B] to participate in ANY of the Draws either on November 1st or the 48 hours draws. It simply would not be a fair draw for the rest of us that choose not to use an outfitter and play the draws for a fair "PUBLIC" chance to win and fish limited sectors.

If the ZEC allows the potential for a monopoly by awarding of 20% and allowing participation in the draws by an outfitter and their clients, there is a very low probability that the public wins either the winter draw or the 48-hour draw.

QuebecSporting 10-08-2006 11:37 AM

Morning Green Ghost,

I feel, if an Outfitter was given 20% of the waters, that’s fine. But use them!!

Where the ACCESSIBILTY problem develops, is when you see reserved and paid waters, and no one fishing!

Re-sell them. Or put the un-used rods in the 48hr draw. (don't monopolize a sector)

People want to fish, local businesses will also profit and appreciate!!

The Gaspé cannot survive without Tourism!! Become a Hero!

http://www.quebecsporting.com/Photos/IMG_6624.JPG

End of discussion for me...

Ann


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