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-   -   Epoxy Butt Splice (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=2285)

juro 01-31-2001 08:30 AM

Epoxy Butt Splice
 
Some may already know this one... shown to me by Tony Gades of Seattle years ago.

To join the butt section to line without the nail knot, try this EASY method that is what I believe is the best way to join the two out there.

Strip off 1/2 inch of coating from the line tip. You can dip it in nail polish remover until it gets soft enough to pull off -or- use a fine electronics wire stripper, the kind with lots of graduated wire gauges. I use the latter with success.

Then sharpen the butt mono using a fresh razor to resemble a pencil.

"Inchworm" the sharp butt inside the braided core of the fly line until it is visibly inside the exposed core -and- even inside the fly line coating. You'll see the slight bump up to the part w/ line threaded into it.

Put a drop of zap-a-gap on the exposed braided core and let dry a few minutes. It's ready to fish!

Benefits -

Easy! Completely compact. not even a bump thru the guides. Strong. Catches no weed or mung. Doesn't get caught on snags (sinktips). If you pull a long leader into the guides accidentally, it works it's way out easily without threading - just false cast. For the low number of times you affix a butt to line, the slightly increased effort is worth it.

Caveats -

Not something you'd do in the field - nail knot's quicker and easier. See the doll needle trick for a really fast approach.

Opinion -

Well worth the effort.

isoh 01-31-2001 01:27 PM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
Nice!...But how strong is strong? Strong enough for salwater? It seems to me like a few knocks in the surf would crack that brittle superglue and you'd be all done - you're next fish would take fly, leader and butt.

(??)

juro 01-31-2001 02:46 PM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
You won't "knock" it when you try it http://216.71.206.188/images/flytalk/Wilk.gif

Way stronger than a nail knot. It's really not epoxy, it's zap-a-gap style epoxy... thin, permeating - to bond by osmosis into the braids of the core and the mono butt.

Saltwater is way less demanding than a volcanic rock toothed river gorge with sinktip lines and this joint is way beyond the challenge, you have to cut it off to change the butt.

isoh 01-31-2001 03:10 PM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
I'll try it.....

The reason I question it is because Zap a gap is basically superglue and I've always been cautioned against using that on flies because while it holds well, it's very brittle and tends to crack on impact, but perhaps something special is happening when it encounters the mono and line core.

RayStachelek 01-31-2001 05:39 PM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
I use to use the braided loop connectors on 3 foot sink tips on my intermediate lines. Would shrink-tite per instructions. Than I would add Zap-a-Gap near each end of the connector. Would even place it aside in a vertical position, so the liquid wouldn't flow up the braid.

One day, with no pressure at all, the connector just slipped off the sink tip in my hands. My take on this problem was that the glue might have saturated the braid. It stiffens the braid and when the glue failed either by cracking or salt deterioration, the connector lost that Chinese finger handcuff action. Just slipped off.

Since that day, I now use big game mono and nail knots as my connecting system in saltwater. Don't know if this is an isolated case, but I changed just the same. If some strands of the braid break prematurely, the whole loop tends to fail very easily.

Just my thoughts.

juro 01-31-2001 06:47 PM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
Al -

I think you're 100% right about the cracking when it's applied thick enough to be used structurally. This application is more of a bonding agent for fibers than a structural glue like epoxy on a fly head. For instance when I use it on a heavy base of thread to hold materials or eyes it turns the thread into stone while not having any detectable "shell" to crack or chip off.

I'll do all my leaders for the season opener and show you when we hook up.

juro 01-31-2001 06:56 PM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
Ray -

The scenario you mention has little (or no) similarity to the epoxy splice but I know what you mean... store-bought loops suck!

There's no way you could hold them on the line with a drop of zap-a-gap, it would take a minimum of a nail knot with some aquaseal over that once again. I used them once, only once. I build my own loops for hybrid lines. The problem with store loops is that any opposite pressure undoes the Chinese finger grip! A guide hitting the non-loop end will do it every time.

NrthFrk16 02-01-2001 04:36 AM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
There is an amazing new glue on the market that is designed as all purpose glue. A freind of mine picked a bottle up at the boat show here in Seattle a couple weeks back. It was $25 for a 3 oz bottle and it is made in Austria. I can not remember the name though.

I can not wait till we recieve our order of this glue. It is amazing!!!! We pushed a bodkin about an inch up a flyline to 'core' it, dipped 15 mono in the glue, slid into the line, gave it 30 seconds to dry and started to pulling as hard as we could; one guy on the flyline line another on the mono. We pulled as hard as we could including wrapping each end around screw drivers and pulled and pulled, ran, leaned etc. etc. and it would not come apart. Next we threaded the other end of the mono 1/2" into Tuff line (a spectra/dacron super compostire line). Anyone who has tried to knot these two types of lines together knows that it is nearly impossible. We coated the threaded section with the glue and began pulling again. After about 10 minutes and with the flyline wrapped around a screwdriver and the mono the same we managed to pull the mono our of the flyline. This was with each of us falling backwards to apply the most pressure as possbible. And when the mono finally seperated from the flyline (we gave up trying to seperate the Tuff line/mono connection) the mono had actually ripped out the insides of the flyline that were not removed during the 'decoreing' process with the bodkin.

My boss has been in the business for 30 years and he said this is by far the strongest and most amazing glue he has ever seen. If anyone is interested give me a call and I will send you a number to get ahold of them.

...and I promise you have no connection with this company at all. I just saw this stuff in action and realized it would be invaluable to so many flyfishers.

striblue 02-01-2001 08:28 AM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
Thanks, would you send me the information... do you know anything about it's toxicity... apart from the regular glue makeups... anything different?

juro 02-01-2001 09:56 AM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
I am *DEFINITELY* interested! When I read this I think of new ways of doing nuclear strength splices of partial floating heads and sink tips, clear tips. all kinds of stuff.

Do I send you a check or do you have ordering info?

Juro

NrthFrk16 02-01-2001 02:19 PM

RE:Epoxy Butt Splice
 
Juro-
I will dig up the infor today at workd and send it to you. We have not recieved the product yet so I do not want to take your money. Will send something this evening.

It is great stuff!!


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