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-   -   Canoe & Spey?? (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=20026)

QuebecSporting 03-29-2005 05:36 PM

Canoe & Spey??
 
I knew I had another question!! :tongue:

So, if you are in a canoe with a spey rod.... :confused:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...mith/canoe.jpg

You are the angler with the rod in this photo...

Is it easy?
What's the ideal cast?
Fly choice?? :roll:


Enjoy your fishing!!


A.. :)

Muckle Salmon 03-29-2005 08:55 PM

Hi Ann, Single off the right hand no problem but why bother. Just as easy to overhand. As to fly choice that is something else. Every reply will prob. give a different answer with the correct answer only in the mind of the one replying.
Looking forward to seeing you in June :)
Ramsay

QuebecSporting 03-29-2005 09:18 PM

Bonsoir Ramsay,

Just to let you know.......IT'S SNOWING!!!!! :)

Let's hope it stays cool until May.....

I have a new run I want you to try out next season ...... :roll:


A.. :wink:

Willie Gunn 03-30-2005 01:16 AM

I think a single spey would worry the ropeman, the fisher should be in the stern of the boat and double speying.

Here is a picture of the head gillie from Delfur boating a lucky angler down the Spey.http://www.fishspey.co.uk/BEATPICS/delfurpic1.jpg

Gaspe Salmon 03-30-2005 07:49 AM

No spey rods in my canoe!
 
Ann,

Good question!

Spey rods are very dangersous in canoes and are not recommended, no matter what sort of cast you use.

Have a nice day,

DB

inland 03-30-2005 02:14 PM

I have spent quite a bit of time using a two hander out of a canoe in Quebec and the PNW. It is hardly dangerous, or any more dangerous, just more of a 'nuisance' than need be when spey casting. If I am alone in my Restigouche Canoe I will use a double hander as I can stand near the stern. Otherwise take advantage of the boat and use a single hander to cover the water.

William

Nooksack Mac 03-31-2005 03:06 AM

l) Stretch a cable or thick rope a few feet above the ground, perhaps between two trees. Learn to balance while sitting or standing on it, depending on the level of your aspirations.
2) When you've mastered that, learn to juggle.
3) When you've learned how to combine the two, check back with us for further instructions.

juro 03-31-2005 05:08 AM

The rules of engagement ;) are the same whether on a canoe or on foot, but the angler' "footprint" changes dramatically with the length of the craft.

This angler is in the middle of the canoe's footprint, thus must either use a 25ft rod to reach over his friends or move to either end of the canoe in accordance with the wind.

On foot, a downriver wind causes the caster to use a downriver anchor; and an upriver wind forces an upriver anchor. Likewise, this angler must either take the downriver end in a downriver wind or the upriver end on an upriver wind and place the anchor in the water off to the side.

In a no-wind situation either would work.

Simon Gawesworth demonstrates the application of a snake roll from the end of a canoe in the ISC video.

Overhead casting with the two-hander all things being equal (skill level) lifts the line further away from the other people on board and the casts will reach further requiring less anchor adjustment.

Fighting fish, particularly landing fish is more challenging with a longer rod on board a canoe unless the angler is positioned on the upriver end with the gillie on the other end. Rowing to shore might be a good approach for a large fish.

An Atlantis 1109 might be a good over/under choice from a canoe although I haven't tried it personally that way. I hear that it's a spot-on match with Rio's new Skagit line (7/8w) and can't wait to get mine to see for myself.

Gardener 03-31-2005 06:54 AM

Without wishing to hijack this thread, what are the advantages/disadvantages of a canoe over the styles of boat used on this side of the atlantic? And what function, if any, do the three non-fishers shown in the picture perform, or are some of them simply spectators? Can the fisherman sit when casting, or is it necessary for him to stand up, with the risk of instability in a boat of narrow beam?

As you can tell, I'm not familiar with canoes at all, but returning to the question I'd agree with Willie G (no surprise!) in what he says, as a matter of principle. I've fished (and gillied) in different styles of boat, both in Scotland and Norway, but the same basic rules applied in both places.

The fisherman should be in the stern of the boat, and wherever possible the fly should stay downstream of him. This means either a double spey, snake roll or other downstream anchor cast, or an overhead cast off the downstream shoulder. It should not matter if that's your weaker side; one of the advantages of a boat is that the fisherman can be positioned so he doesn't need a long cast to cover the best water. Out of consideration for your boatman, the fly should never pass over his head. I used to work with a Tweed boatman who lost the sight of an eye through someone not obeying this rule.

But if, for example, there was an upstream wind blowing which prevented a downstream-anchored spey cast, and there was a good reason why the fisher couldn't cast overhead off the downstream shoulder, if I were the boatman I would certainly want the fisher to use as long a rod as possible to keep the fly well away from me.

inland 03-31-2005 12:59 PM

Gardener,

In the photo there are two anglers and two boatmen. The guide sits in the stern area the anchor, or bowman, sits in the bow to run the anchor for doing drops. The pictured set up is poled around. Other setups not pictured run the anchor rope to the stern area where the 'guide' can drop and pull anchor. With the square stern you can also use an outboard motor to get around.

It's usually a shared rod. Either way only one angler fishes at a time. The basic set up is to line the boat up to ensure the anglers are casting over the 'sweet' water (known holding lies really) and fish one or both sides of the boat while anchored. Start short and lengthen a bit between casts. 1 foot to 3 feet depending on what you are tying to accomplish. Once the limit of your casting is reached the boatman lifts anchor and drops you down to that limit allowing for some overlap between drops. If two are fishing you switch turns.

For everybody that is questioning...Mac and Gardener...these boats are VERY stable. There is no reason to sit and fish. Or learn a highwire balancing act. I get a lot of crap out here on the West Coast with my boat- all asking the same questions about stability and safety. I run a 15 horse prop and it motors along just fine. It's not going to win any races but it gets you there quick enough.

You hit it on the head: "one of the advantages of a boat is that the fisherman can be positioned so he doesn't need a long cast to cover the best water". That is why it is more of a nuisance to use a two hander. You are already standing on the fish with no need to cast any real distance. A single hander is more than adequate and really outshines a double for fishing such short distances. It took me quite a while to finally admit that as I plugged away spey casting with 13-15' rods.

William

Gaspe Salmon 04-01-2005 08:23 AM

Canoe's and Spey casting
 
Hmm...

Have been following the thread and can see now that I was a bit quick with my response. Actually, not really quick, just not precise enough in my response. It was silly of me to think that all anglers fish out of 26" cedar strip canoes like we do here on the Cascapedia River.

Each canoe has two guides in it, a head guide (down stream) and anchor man (upriver end). The anglers are seated between. Perhaps now you can see why in OUR case, it is dangerous, other than an overhead cast, which is not true spey casting, I dare say, is dangerous. Too many factors like wind and switching casting sides to think about. Why do I say it is dangerous??? I have not only seen people try it, experienced anglers at that, I have tried it, and at some point in all of the sessions that I have been through, the anchor man, or rear seated angler eventually gets tagged with a fly or part of the line.

Perhaps if you were alone in a canoe / boat, things would be different, or, if you were in a smaller craft it might work better.

I just wanted to clear that up so that you all do not think I am some sort of dweeb for trying to save a few eyes from being stabbed by errant casts!

Besides, isn't is a heck of a lot more fun to cast while wading with a two handed rod? More freedom of movement and besides, they were designed for wade fishing not boat fishing.

To each his own, I guess... best to you all!

David.
P.S. Juro, did you get my private message a week ago?

juro 04-01-2005 08:29 AM

David -

For some reason I do not have the PM from you. Could you please re-send?

thanks

Charlie 04-06-2005 07:54 AM

I have to agree with Ramsay on this one. I think everyone assumes that if you are using a spey rod that you are obliged to spey cast. I have used a spey rod in a canoe to overhead cast and it works just as well as a single-handed rod.

Charlie


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