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speyguy66 01-02-2005 06:36 PM

Proposal in Quebec
As many non-resident salmon anglers know, there currently is no law that requires us to either book through an outfitter or retain a guide to fish the many salmon rivers of Quebec. I think many of you may like to know that currently there are several outfitters in Quebec that have just made a proposal to the Government that all non-residents must either book through an outfitter or guide service to be able to fish any of the salmon river in the Province. I've been salmon fishing for over 15 years and have spent most of the last 10 years fishing in Quebec for a variety of reasons. One of which is the fact that I can fish on my own without a guide or the use of an outfitter. I spend up to a month each year in Quebec and although I may not fish every day, I do fish from between 15 to 20 days during my stay. To have to pay an outfitter for services that I do not need, I feel is unnecessary. It is not that I am against outfitters at all, in fact, my first few years of fishing in Quebec I had used the services of several outfitters to help me become familiar with the areas that I was fishing. Over my month stay in Quebec I will say that I do support the local economy by the use of hotels, restaurants and many other local businesses. Many of the towns that are close to the salmon rivers no doubt benefit from the non-resident anglers fishing in the area and although not depending solely on their business to be sucessful know that without them they would see a significan drop in sales. I know that the residents of Quebec are concerned with the large increase in the number of non-residents that have been coming out in the preseason lottery draws. This problem exists because of a select few individuals that are financially able to take advantage of the current rules and regulations. To my knowledge, this problem has been recognized and can only hope that it will be addressed directly and that all non-residents will not have to suffer because of the actions of the select few.

I truly hope that the Quebec government will not change the current regulations as it pertains to non-residents. I believe that the individual angler should make the decision to book through a outfitter or guide service if they desire, not make it a requirement.

I would like to hear any comments from residents and non-resident alike regarding this matter.


Topher Browne 01-02-2005 08:25 PM

The requirement to participate in the many ZEC draws AND hire a guide/outfitter would seem an undue hardship for ANYONE who wishes to fish "La Belle Provence" (Quebec).

For most Americans and many Canadians, New Brunswick is a lot closer. The Miramichi has more Atlantic salmon than all the rivers of the Gaspe' combined (and then some).

Muckle Salmon 01-02-2005 11:29 PM

Stupid proposal
Oh god here we go again! :confused: I quit fishing Newfoundland for exactly the same reason. Who do they think fishes all the catch and release season. Not the locals and not the guys with money. It is the journeymen fishers (read; guys without money) that bring money to the local economy early in the season. It looks like it is time to start writing some letters. ANN HELP what can you tell us about this? It is not too long ago we had to write with regard to the native fishery. Are those addresses still valid? Brian, Charlie any INfo? With what I have learned in the past we have to get organized really quickly to make a difference.
Speyguy 66 where did you get your info. and have you confirmed this is the case?
If this is more than a rumour then we have to be VERY VOCAL if we hpe to continue fishing the Gaspe'.

juro 01-02-2005 11:48 PM

Guys, the ability to pool our voices toward such causes is at the very heart of the Forum, in fact the power of community is one of the primary motivations for building this site in the first place. Absolutely lets use it where appropriate to send emails, communicate the core issues, and stay aligned.

I am certainly no expert in Quebec angling regulations and economic drivers but speaking just as a person who frequently has Gaspe' daydreams since a recent trip there, it seems to me that such a decision would hurt the economy of the area more than it would help as Topher pointed out.

I will watch as the conversation develops and be ready to set up easy emailing forms to help get more people involved, once we have the full story and names of contacts we will need to petition.

QuebecSporting 01-03-2005 06:54 AM

It is not a rumour, but a fact….not only (guides mandatory) but some want a % (of rods on some rivers) before the pre-season draws in order to accommodate their clients.

As SpeyGuy66 has mentioned:
Yes, residents of Quebec are concerned with the large increase in the number of non-residents that have been coming out in the preseason lottery draws. And yes, this problem exists because of a select few individuals that are financially able to take advantage of the current rules and regulations.

This has made all the Québec newpapers since November and still is!!!

I too think, non-residents shoud not have to suffer because of the actions of the select few.

As I stated before on another board
A guide or an Outfitter, should be a question of personal choice.
Some don't need guides and some don't have the budget for guides.
Some prefer guides and others like a luxury trip.
Fishing must stay accessible to all!!!
Fishing is about getting away from life stresses and enjoying yourself (alone, with a buddy or a guide....whatever!!). It's there for matter who you are, "cast a fly" and make it your million dollar trip!!
It also gives the opportunity to some anglers to come with the whole famliy (at a price that works for them..) and stay longer and do other things in the area than fishing.

I also think this will hurt our economy (hotel, motels, restaurants, fly shops, gas station etc….)

It is great, we are seeing more kids fishing ……I am not sure some will be able to afford bringing the whole family if this happens.

Will this become a sport only for the Rich???
Are we returning to “Private Clubs?”

There is place for everyone, Outfitters, guides and anglers who want to fish on their own. The present rules and regulations are being reviewed (hopefully for the best!)

I think, It’s time to address your concerns.

This is urgent, rumour has it, a meeting is set for mid-February…..

Count me in!!!

Actually, I have already started my homework.........

I will not go any further in this discussion
(Let's keep it accessible!!)


Salar-1 01-03-2005 10:20 PM

I believe that both proposals ( req'd guide/outfitter and the percentage thingy) were shotdown at the "Table de Saumon" on Dec 5. A few,and I might add VERY few, members of the FQSA DID want to adopt the guide ruling for non residents and they were severely shot down. as was the idea to dramatically increase non resident fees .
Topher ,you're quite right about the Miramichi,HOWEVER you ,and I, as non residents will require a "guide" to accompany us on the river. Besides, give me a small run of TAKING fish anytime .

juro 01-04-2005 06:22 AM

I have heard from those in the know that this is no longer on the table, and we who love the Quebec fishery as it is will have nothing to worry about in terms of public fishing via current ZEC access policies.

It appears to be a false alarm!

Charlie 01-04-2005 08:15 AM

Salar-1 & Juro,

I like your optimism about this whole thing. But I still think we should be on guard about this. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think the FQSA has the final say in such things. They can make a recommendation but the decision lies with the government. I think this is far from over.

I also heard that the Outfitter’s want 20% of the Draw water. If this happens Quebec residents would have a very difficult time getting good water for there own fishing. Just some things to think about.


Muckle Salmon 01-04-2005 09:44 AM

I am with Charlie on this. It is a situation to be carefully watched. Too often things slide in the back door when no one is looking. A big hand to Speyguy 66 for ringing the alarm bell. :hihi:

Ray Blades 01-04-2005 11:00 AM

Thanks Speyguy 66. If anyone has any more info please keep us informed.

Thanks again.


juro 01-04-2005 11:16 AM

Perhaps I was a little naive in my wording, but based on the direct testimony of a member of the Outfitter's Committee to the Quebec Government "at no time was there a mandatory guide discussion between outfitters and the government".

However, there was discussion about how the draws are run, thus there is still cause for concern to your point. Thanks for pointing that out and as always the Forum resources are ready to help in any way to pull our voices together to important causes as this.

Smolt 01-04-2005 01:29 PM

FYI, this topic was raised on another SAOL board as well as here. The latest comment there, which was posted by a fellow I know to be very active in salmon matters, was as follows:

"According to the FQSA ( Salmon Québec federation) after the result of their Fall survey ( Memory paper) ( ) given to the Québec's Minister of Natural ressources, they don't propose any change for non-resident salmon fishing but they requested that this subject is [sic] discuss [sic] in the near future."

So, as some here have suggested, it appears the issue may not be dead, just asleep.

Salar36 01-04-2005 11:11 PM

Well, this topic is becoming very hot. My first post on this forum. As a member of the board of the FQSA, I think I have to clarify some points.

There are a couple concerns in this topic.

Is the question of mandatory outiftter or guide has been discussed in the last "Table Saumon". Yes. Is there an official request from outfitter? I would say no (as a member of the table, I need to keep some discussion at the table level, you will all understand). But sure there is some representation to that. Is there any support on this? Clearly no. Not from FQSA. As far as I know, not from GRSQ. Would say no from FQF. The last survey was clear. A change on the legislation should be approoved by the partners, not only by a group of interest. But even if the FQSA has recommended not to adopt a legislation for a mandatory guide, any change in the Nova Scotia legislation on this issue may occur to a revision of this position.

Regarding the fact the Miramichi is having much more fish than all Gaspe rivers. Right. And it will always be like it. Just a genetic question. With 70% of grilse, the spawning result will always require much more fish on the Miramichi than in the Gaspe river's where most of fish are MSW , and large % 3years MSW. The capacity to support parr is proportional to thw watershed and the number of eggs received, not to the number of fish (all size included)...Restigouche is also in NB...and will never have the number of fish of the Miramich! Everything is question of choice...size of fish and kind of water!

I think your concerns are justified, and it is an excellent time to express them. Quebec province is now at the corner of a big transition. There are some politic pressures for different things. But there is something clear. Non resident are always welcome here. The residents are AGAINST any restriction on pre season draw for non-resident (the last survey showed that clearly), even if non-resident would welcome a pre draw restricted to residents...also clearly showed in the survey. The result of the last draw in Gaspe is something that should have never happenned, and everybody working in the salmon world in Quebec (including Gaspe Zec) know why. The required changes are on the way to be implemented.

The FQSA presented a "Memoire" to the government last december. It has been presented to the "Table Saumon" also. This document is actualy on translation to be available in english by the next 2 weeks. It has already received the support of the FQF (Quebec Wildlife Federation), and been subject to very good comments from the press. I would suggest to everyone to read it, and after, to support and/or recommend changes if required. The FQSA is an open forum.

I wish an Happy New Year to all the members of this forum, and hope to meet you next summer

Pierre Manseau

Salar-1 01-04-2005 11:31 PM

The " way the draws are run"topic was and is being discussed, but not as is being depicted here and on SAOL. There is a VERY big lobby of anglers here in Quebec that wish to severely curtail outfitter/guide activity on our Salmon rivers .It has become a very heated issue .You can read the recommendations on the FQSA site that were made to the table de Saumon .Concentrate on articles (if I remember right) 80 through 95 and you'll get a jist of where things are heading.
I attended the FQSA meeting at which the guide for non residents issue was raised and the proposal was largely shot down.However there WAS a VERY small (3 or 4) and very vocal group of individuals who insisted on reviving the issue in the future. I do believe ,however, that a severe curtailment of outfitter/guiding activities in the future is definately in the cards for 2006.

fcch 01-06-2005 08:24 AM

Hi all,

My Bot just found this thread, so I'll jump in late.

I guess the question comes down to, What is fishing ??

Is it a right, a heritage, a privilege ?? And for who ??

I'm for reasonable access to ressources for (all) users. I'm also for the long term viability of ressource based industries.

IMHO, we need some "compromises" here. I think Ann says it best, "... Keep it accessible". Some Cat I rivers in BC have hurt local businesses as there is no longer a resident fisherie and the Big Cats that can afford the few Guide Services don't spend locally.

Accessible for who. Well all of us (resident and non-resident). Unfortunately Quebec LawMakers seem to prefer "wall to wall" regulations. If there is talk of mandatory guides, the gouvenement just might do that for ALL non-residents.

I guide part time, do I think this is a good idea?? NO !!

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