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-   -   exceptional day swinging (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=18589)

h2o 11-24-2004 08:32 PM

exceptional day swinging
 
To keep the hopes alive as far as swinging here in late November I had a exceptional day swinging streamers today on the largest of New Yorks Lake Erie tribs. A cold rainy overcast day water temp. probably in the low 40's but the Steelhead were active and chasing. I worked the frog water with looong cast's and the walking curent speed runs. I am glad I left my nymphs and eggs at home because the anglers indy nymphing were doing just fair.
Size 6 Steelhead Buggers in brown & orange guinea collar / Black & Blue. But the hot fly was a Zonker spin off I tie in natural zonker strip, tan bucktail collar, sparce white bucktail belly with some gold K-flash & flash-a-bou in the mid section. Wouldn't touch white here today........it was hot the week prior. Brown & gold color combo was my old standby on overcast day's a few years ago, glad I went back to it today. See the sculpin thread...........nice.
S.A. Mastery type 5 one piece sink tip/4 1/2' leader to 10 # test floro. on my 9 1/2' single handed rod. (you guys may talk me into getting a spey rod yet..........grin)
As a bonus 3 of the fish were over 30" :) which for this trib is large. Some hard rip's.........some tap, tap..............grab. All battled with great spirit.
Don't put the speys,streamers & sink tips away yet................

steelmaniac 11-24-2004 08:38 PM

that thread right there is gonna make me tear. I could've been doin that. But instead I had to pull Germany for a post and they have no idea of what speyfishing is. Ah well I did some with a great friend before I left. Felt like 1 steelhead nailed my orange heron and another fat smallie hooked up the second time so the rod is still a steelhead virgin. lol nice job

peter-s-c 11-24-2004 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2o
Don't put the speys,streamers & sink tips away yet................


Well of course not. :)

Congrats . . .

Now to get a real rod, eh?

Jamey McLeod 12-14-2004 08:29 PM

Streamers and speys on the swing are always better than eggs and nymphs on the bounce. Two hands on a rod are always better than one. Make the leap, you'll never look back.


A buddy and I turned a few fish the other day in some cold water also. Really cool part of it was, when we were rigging up a certain guide/author pulled his jet into the run right in front of us with two sports and the C&D gear. They moved on after 10min or so of nothing but zebra mussels. They weren't even out of sight and my buddy jumped a 10lb male on a black and purple spey mid swing, the above mentioned guide slowed the boat and watched, I loved it. Even cooler, it was my buddies first day on the water swinging with a two hander ever.

I think I have created a monster.

snaggletooth 12-15-2004 11:07 AM

Looking back in my journal, I had a phenomenal day on the same body of water the same day! They were really hot towards dark! Thugmeisters in the tailouts on a Type 6 Windcutter tip were the ticket for me. It seemed as if every 3 drifts would result in a pull for about the last hour and a half of the day. Some terrible weather later in the day and almost submerged the truck on the way out, but man was it worth it...

Charlie 12-15-2004 03:38 PM

Love hearing this kind of stuff. Sometimes it seems to me the fishing with swinging flies gets better after the New Year.

h2o,

Do your self a favor and follow Peters advise. Get a 2 hander. Especially if you are going to fish some of the bigger tribs in the winter.

Charlie

h2o 12-16-2004 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaggletooth
Looking back in my journal, I had a phenomenal day on the same body of water the same day! They were really hot towards dark! Thugmeisters in the tailouts on a Type 6 Windcutter tip were the ticket for me. It seemed as if every 3 drifts would result in a pull for about the last hour and a half of the day. Some terrible weather later in the day and almost submerged the truck on the way out, but man was it worth it...


By your description................thats the day ! What a cold rainy day. They really turned on late (about 2:30 pm till "into" the dark). Porposing, chasing,active.............
My nerves were a little on edge 4 wheel' in out in the dark & rain also.

Hey..............did you get some large fish that day too ?

h2o 12-16-2004 06:52 PM

I am not so sure nor "sold" on the 2 handed / spey rod thing yet. I have plenty of room for back cast's on the stream I would use the spey most. I think there are certain things in regards to swinging a single handed may do better.

Some other pro's of the single hander
-feel of the fight
-short casts/swings in slots
-lightweight (I know........a spey is supposed to be easier on your shoulded........they still feel heavy to me and a single hand don't wear me out to much with a good 1 piece smooth casting SA Mastery type 5 or 3, 12' tip. I use to make my own tips.............went back to the factory one piece........hate loops.....all of them)
I may get one some day.........but, it is certainly specialized. I could see it on really big water say 1500 - 2000 cfs or all day long casts with shooting heads(which I don't enjoy no mater what anyways)
- feel of the take if light

peter-s-c 12-16-2004 07:13 PM

Well, perhaps you need some time on the water with one of the smaller two-handers as you might be surprised. It's not just backcast room -- easy casting distance can also be handy. And don't forget that the longer the rod, the more advantage the fish has, so don't worry about overpowering fish. These rods offer greater line control, cast all day with no strain, large fishing range, handle heavy tips and large flies, plus you can cast for distance with very little room when you need to. Plus when you want to go back to nymphs and indicator, the smaller two-handers work nicer for this job than most single handers. Casting a weighted fly, BB shot, and a bobber is way easier using a spey cast with a small two-hander.

Check the "Niagara River, Skagit" thread here and see the photo of my casting position. I was hitting 80 footers from this vantage point and not putting any line over the bank.

You can also use two-handers to advantage in skinny water where there are obstructions all around you, yet the rod lets you pop out short casts using nothing but the tip and exposing no line to the mess around you. Lastly, you have a practical fishing tool for managing casting from a bank with minimum backcast room. I used to have six single-handers from 7 wt. to 10 wt. but now I only have two and both of them are in a "backup" role.

h2o 12-16-2004 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter-s-c
Well, perhaps you need some time on the water with one of the smaller two-handers as you might be surprised. It's not just backcast room -- easy casting distance can also be handy. And don't forget that the longer the rod, the more advantage the fish has, so don't worry about overpowering fish. These rods offer greater line control, cast all day with no strain, large fishing range, handle heavy tips and large flies, plus you can cast for distance with very little room when you need to. Plus when you want to go back to nymphs and indicator, the smaller two-handers work nicer for this job than most single handers. Casting a weighted fly, BB shot, and a bobber is way easier using a spey cast with a small two-hander.

Check the "Niagara River, Skagit" thread here and see the photo of my casting position. I was hitting 80 footers from this vantage point and not putting any line over the bank.

You can also use two-handers to advantage in skinny water where there are obstructions all around you, yet the rod lets you pop out short casts using nothing but the tip and exposing no line to the mess around you. Lastly, you have a practical fishing tool for managing casting from a bank with minimum backcast room. I used to have six single-handers from 7 wt. to 10 wt. but now I only have two and both of them are in a "backup" role.



Hey Peter, ahhh a friendly little debate. :smokin:
"easy casting distance can also be handy" I don't have distance cast much over 70' to make. Most are 30' - 60' or less.
"And don't forget that the longer the rod, the more advantage the fish has. True but those rods have some huge butt diameters & powers taking much of the feel of fighting out of it. A 7 wt. spey certainly has much more power that a 9' 6" 7 wt. any way you look at it.
"handle heavy tips and large flies" I don't care for shooting head type tips (heavy) in river fishing unless I am striping streamers for Trout from the bow of a drift boat. I don't use "large fly's" often ...........mostly sz. 6 some 4's. Single handed rods handle large fly's too................for what it's worth, come Pike fishing with me (grin) The line carrys the fly............rod has little to do with it. A 7 wt. spey rod casts large fly's well because it isn't a "real" 7 wt.
"These rods offer greater line control"..........true, if you commonly have 70' or more of line out and need it.
"cast all day with no strain".............it's the tech............same with a single hand. Good casters fish all day with either.
"plus you can cast for distance with very little room when you need to". Just not needed where I fish.
"Plus when you want to go back to nymphs and indicator, the smaller two-handers work nicer for this job than most single handers. Casting a weighted fly, BB shot, and a bobber is way easier using a spey cast with a small two-hander." No question they make a great float & fly rod but, I rarely do that the last few years................maybe once or twice a year out of fish once or twice a week most the year.
Check the "Niagara River, Skagit" thread here and see the photo of my casting position. I was hitting 80 footers from this vantage point and not putting any line over the bank. The Niagara is the type of river spey rods were made for........................never fished it. If I did on a regular basis I would probably get a spey rod (grin) :hihi:

peter-s-c 12-16-2004 09:19 PM

Hey, to each his own . . . .

Gillie 12-16-2004 09:44 PM

h2o,
There are a few other advantages to the spey rod. The greates of these is the time your fly spends in the water. There is no arguing that the more time your fly spends in the water the greater your odds are. This is especially true when swinging flies. I have a 10' Sage XP that is a great rod for delivering wets, and I consider myself fairly adept at casting it. Before I really got into the two handed gig I fished it for a week on the Umpqua blasting out casts in the 70-80 ft range all day. I have also fishe 40-50 wide streams in upstate NY with it.

What I can tell you is that I fish both those situations with a spey rod now. The small streams I cover with an 11' 8 weight with a windcutter. I don't need a spey for these streams but my fly spends probably 25% more time in the water actually fishing when I have my little spey rod. No roll casting, no false casting. Just two quick flicks of the wrist and my fly is back in the drink doing its thing. Although often not needed, two handed rods are almost always more efficent than a single handed rod, even at close range.

As Skagit lines start to come out on the market I think they are going to be recognized as a great way to efficently cover closer lies with a deeply sunken fly on shorter spey rods on the great lakes.

The added power in the butts of these rods allows a sink tip or heavily weighted fly to be lifted and immediately cast without difficulty.

As far as the fight with a spey, it's actually quite the opposite of what your thinking. Although the butts are large and powerful the leverage advantage the fish gains more than makes up for it. For example, I have fished 10 weight spey rods that a 12 lb steelhead feels great on. On the other hand I have a 9' 10 weight and it would be total overkill for the same fish.

I encourage you to try a spey, I think you'll get hooked. If not just keep plugging away with the single hander, I doubt anyone will hold it against you :hihi: .

Gillie

snaggletooth 12-16-2004 11:08 PM

Big Fish
 
H2O,
Tuesday and Wednesday were both great days, but Wednesday definitely produced more fish. Although what I think was the biggest fish returned a hook to me that was bent at 90 degree angle, we did catch some pretty substantial fish. Quite a few over 30" with plenty of 100' plus runs and cartwheels thrown in for fun! The biggest advantage I've found with the spey is that you don't have to strip any line in after a long swing, just pick the line up, anchor and bombs away! Try the spey, I think you'll like it. I picked up a Temple Fork 12'6" #6 for $300,and it was well worth it for this creek. I'll try to get the pics up from those days...

peter-s-c 12-17-2004 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gillie
h2o,
There are a few other advantages to the spey rod. The greates of these is the time your fly spends in the water.
Gillie

Ya, I kinda forgot that one -- like you say, it's the biggest advantage -- just pick it up and flip it out. I occasionally share a stretch of water with a single-hander user and the one thing I always notice is that I'm halfway through my drift while they're still false casting and fiddling.

If you guys could've see Dave's little Loop 7/8 bent double by an average sized Grand River steelie, then there wouldn't be any doubt about fighting fish on them. :hihi:

snaggletooth 12-17-2004 10:39 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Heres a couple of pictures from Tuesday and Wednesday.


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