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-   -   The Stop (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=17231)

Klem 08-15-2004 11:50 PM

The Stop
 
Curious, how do you stop the rod in your casting stroke? I have been working on using the "butt-of-the-rod" stop. A little kick back of the bottom hand at the end of my pull to the waist. This seems to super charge the loop and produce a tighter, more consistant loop with both legs of the loop parallel. Just curious to see if there are more ways to stop the rod in the casting stroke.

Klem, just trying to learn more.

juro 08-16-2004 03:07 PM

(assuming you are talking about spey casting)

I could be misinterpreting what you are saying but I assume you are talking about a very minute snap-t like move of the rod tip but in a much more subtle way of course. This reversal of tension makes the line jump forward as if it's charged with electricity.

I think we all kickback a tiny bit if for no other reason to hold the rod tip from deflecting. But I think I know what you mean, a little extra reversal of energy for adding "opposing tension" to the loop makes both sides tight. If my memory serves me right (need to go play with it more) this technique lends itself to shorter casts but not necessarily to long casts because it affect line shooting.

For longer casts where you shoot a lot of running line you don't want to introduce a pullback tension on the near end of the line unless there is adequate force to overcome it once the loop is on it's way.

I'll have to go play with it some more, but this is what I recall from the last tie out playing around with it.

This is an interesting point you make Klem - worth looking into for sure! I am curious to hear what others have to say. Maybe we should move this over to the speypages technique section?

Klem 08-16-2004 11:28 PM

Spey of course!
 
Yes, I'm talking spey casting. Sorry I didn't memtion in it up front. Thought very one understood there is only spey casting left in the world. I've been working with a double taper line to get my technique down. So my limits are 70' cast up to 80' using a DT. What I've discovered is the line jumps (super charge effect) off the tip. I've yet to try shooting 100' to 110' foot cast with a head. The "kick-back" (with bottom hand) is very, very small. To much kick-back and the line just off the tip does a dealt shape loop and settles to the water in that dealt shape. My theory is: a solid, conscious stop with the bottom hand makes the tip unfold with greater energy, BUT not a reverse of the butt. I don't think the tip does the snap-t thing. The tip just unloads faster. Hopes this helps in explaining what I'm attempting.

Skilly 08-17-2004 08:48 AM

rod stop
 
I will have to try it, maybe I can justr bouce it off my fat belly. :cool:


Skilly

peter-s-c 08-17-2004 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skilly
I will have to try it, maybe I can justr bouce it off my fat belly. :cool:


Skilly

That's all I do -- works like a charm -- best use of a beer gut yet . . . . . :D

Klem 08-17-2004 11:01 AM

Sorry guys
 
The belly stop just doesn't do it - to much give in the same direction. The stop MUST be firm. I know this because my belly is ample and the belly bounce is to soft and late. The lower hand must complete the stop so the energy is transfer quickly. Klem

peter-s-c 08-17-2004 11:53 AM

I'm blessed with both an ample and a hard belly (obviously produced from better Canadian beer) so no problem here. :)

kush 08-17-2004 01:48 PM

Klem,

I need clarification. Which direction is your bottom hand moving with this stopping motion - away from your belly or towards it?

Klem 08-17-2004 04:17 PM

The Stop
 
Kush,
My stroke for delivery starts at the key position (Hugh Falkus term). The top hand is ear level and the bottom hand is @9" from the right chest area. The tip of the rod is pointed @1:30. Both hand move in concert with the bottom hand pulling down towards the ground and the thumb of the upper hand tracing a straight 20% decline down towards what will be the stop position. The rod will travel to a vertical position. The lower hand then comes towards the waist area @ belt high. The upper hand continues its straight 20% decline path to the stop position. What happens now is a scissoring action. The upper elbow should be @ 90 during the entire stroke. The major fulcrum is the upper shoulder with a slight fulcrum at the upper elbow. This makes the larger shoulder muscle do the majority of the work of the upper arm. The bottom hand is the gas pedal and brake of the rod. Although the upper hand add some power, the bottom hand should be the main gas for powering the rod through the delivery cast. I start the delivery cast by pulling down towards the ground with the bottom hand which makes the upper hand follow. When the rod get to vertical , I pull TOWARDs the belly. The stop is the bottom hand forceing the butt of the rod to STOP by driving the the palm of the bottom hand back so very, very slightly. This is a conscious effort to stop the butt of the rod with only the bottom hand.
Klem

kush 08-17-2004 05:09 PM

Okay, I think I've got it, you are essentially emphasizing the abrupt stop of the lower hand with a slight movement away as you stop the pull in towards your belly?

The rest of your cast sounds alot like the underhand casting stroke that Dana uses with long belly lines. It is also similar to what Mike Kinney does with his short bellies.

Klem 08-17-2004 07:19 PM

I would say my stroke is a medium stroke. . I've not seen Mike Kinney cast so I don't know about his style. To be very truthful, I'm copying Al Buhr style. Klem

FlyFishAR 08-19-2004 07:09 AM

Juro:

Do you drift forward during your stops to maintain SLP? I would think it would be difficult to minimze bounce with a longer two handed rod. I need more experience with a two hander. Maybe you can give me some more tips at the Fly Tackle Dealer again this year? Please? Begging...... :)

John Wilson

Whistler 08-21-2004 02:26 AM

'Al Buhr style' is good style to copy!
BN

juro 08-22-2004 10:44 PM

Hi John -

Tell you what let's trade some tips and techniques... I remember how well you cast from last year and could use some brush-up from you.

Looking forward to seeing you at Denver!


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