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-   -   Windmills in Nantucket Sound (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=15200)

juro 03-20-2004 07:28 AM

Windmills in Nantucket Sound
 
I won't sugar-coat my opinion here, the windmill proposal sucks.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for windpower! But not over 28 square miles of Nantucket Sound.

Why not in OTIS Air Force Base???? It's...

1) already secure

2) land-based

3) none of us can see it anyway

4) none of us can use it anyway

5) will not pollute our waters during maintenance of metal objects over salt water 24/7 environments by boat (what a joke!)

6) will prevent private exploitation and extortion of energy dollars at a higher cost while f**king up our sound for their own purposes

7) Cheaper to build, cheaper to maintain and less cost to consumers.

Worst of all, this is a private enterprise wanting to become ridiculously rich by exploiting public waters by selling "green" power at a higher cost back to the people they screw.

DON'T FALL FOR THIS CRAP! I hope the good people of New England do not fall for this scam. Just look at trees - the 'renewable resource' out in the pacific northwest. Not one old growth tree has ever been regrown as they take 750-1000 years to regrow and we are cutting them as thin as 100 ft tall toothpicks for paper mills which dump dioxin into the waters in a country that reads approx. 2% of what we print... 98% of all that devastation is for NOTHING. We owe it to the earth to have a conscience, although you won't see me chaining myself to a tree anytime soon it's about being an honorable sportsman. Recycle, don't subscribe to newspapers unless you really read them, and see the business drivers that are behind these initiatives.

Or hydroelectric dams on the Columbia River... the greatest salmon environment in the universe brought to it's knees and the salmon population reduced to 11-13% of it's size since the 1930's! Entire populations destroyed.

Did you know that in recent years tens of millions of dollars from civilian rate payers went to subsidize the electricity bills of major aluminum companies who consume huge gulps of the dams energy while they fricasee the salmon with turbines?

Take a look at the little dams on the Merrimack - they've completely wiped out all anadramous activity above Lawrence except for the efforts of guys like John Greenwood who is clinging to hang on to the funding to keep society believing that there once was a great run of Atlantics... stripers, sturgeon, all kinds of fish running clear up to Bristol NH from the sea wiped out. Most people are oblivious to the fact that the Merrimac was once one of the greatest angling rivers in America... can you imagine if we had a giant salmon run in the river today... that fishery would be worth tens of millions each year to local businesses, like Pulaski but right here and stretching all the way up to the headwaters of the Pemi near Newfound Lake and into tributaries, etc.

The Connecticut River is another casualty of "progess" and clean power... oh to have these two major salmon rivers back!

Otis makes way too much sense, doesn't it? They'll never go for it. Maybe I need to start an organization for the private entreprenuers who are trying to take over the sound...

getyerheadoutofyerass.org

:hehe:

These are the editorial opinions of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Flyfishing Forum, a neutral resource for the modern global flyfisherman.

OC 03-24-2004 02:39 PM

Just goes to show ya that in todays type of capitalisim even big companies will exploit green if there is money to be made. And goverment won't listen to anything but the green big companies put in certain political coffers.

BigDave 03-24-2004 02:50 PM

Well said....sad but true :mad:

juro 05-31-2006 10:13 AM

Two years later and still no consideration for OTIS as a site for wind power?

The only thing good about the water-based plans is that it has not succeeded. I hope the greed never prevails.

teflon_jones 05-31-2006 11:06 AM

I think the problem with putting them at Otis or another inland location is that we don't get enough wind here in the Northeast to justify that. But I'm not an expert on wind power so feel free to poke holes in my theory.

I also wonder about what the resulting differences in bird and bat kills are from putting them inland versus out to sea.

I watched a very interesting program about people who get paid to install solar panels on the roofs of their houses, then get paid for the extra electricity they generate when it gets fed back into the grid. People were regularly paying less than $10/month for electricity. This was out in Seattle. The also talked about it in German towns where it's apparently very common. Makes perfect sense to me.

juro 05-31-2006 11:29 AM

On land you can put more, taller, more servicable units and use the power in much more affordable infrastructures than in salt water. I would wager that the power generation potential is not only increased but return on investment is much higher, which is more important in the long run as the sea structures fall apart and rot in the salt.

Otis is massive and off limits to us civilians, and is contaminated with hazardous wastes. Why not put it to good use. I don't believe there is any evidence to support the theory that there is insufficient wind 700 ft above Otis property and the potential is to raise them much higher than the water-based which are 670ft tall and partly underwater.

I like the solar idea. It gives me an idea which I need to look into...

striperstripper 05-31-2006 08:48 PM

Otis wind power
 
I live roughly 4 miles from Otis ,my property sits 60 ft above Mashpee-Wakbey lake,there is about a mile length of water which allows the wind to blow unobstructed from the south southwest, the average wind speed from the southwest ,which is the predominate late spring, summer and fall wind direction is somewhere in the 15 -25 mph range.I can't believe a wind tower in excess of 200 ft would not be in a much stronger wind flow over on otis.

juro 05-31-2006 11:46 PM

Look at the size of the base! (in funny mauve (sp?) color)

http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapg...ushwy&on=water

teflon_jones 06-01-2006 08:31 AM

An even better map:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.709829...,0.644073&om=1

beau purvis 06-02-2006 10:34 PM

Dont make up your opinion on this post too soon, but,isnt that an example of "not in my backyard"!Everyone critizises those in power for not doi ng anything,but then they wont let anyone do anything!Personaly,I am against wind power.I think they are Cousinarts in the sky.They will take up a tremendous amount of real estate to make a difference.I love the wide open spaces and dont especially think oil companies have done well in the distant past.However,I think it makes sense to drill anwar on a space the size of a pastage stamp on a football field.I would prefer that to windmills everywhere,including on the flats,carving up migrating birds and waterfowl.Which brings up other ?'s.Why has no one bitched about development of Canadian tar sands?Again,I would rather do horizontal drilling for oil than rip up gazillion acres of northern forest with draglines and D10's and then heat up all that ripped up earth,to extract oil.That sounds worse to the envirnment to me!I cant believe no one has taken pictures of all the deforestation and ripped up earth.No outcry.Maybe I am wrong in my analysis, but I think it is worth exploring.I have seen no questioning of this! I did not hear of any oil spills in last years horrible hurracanes.But you guys and florida and california wont permit drilling.Where would we be without the gulf.And ,of all things ,It seems that the best fishing is around the platforms!!!Now,dont forget,I am against windmills on the flats.It does seem that the best place for them would be the base.My point is, not in my back yard and let us not blindly adopt alternatives that may be worse for the enviroment!!Everything has a cost.Ethanol will take a tremendous amount of land.Therfore what happens to wetlands ?What happens to Pheasants?There is something bad about all alternatives.Lets dont be blind and lets make sence in our choices.Beau

Moonlight 06-03-2006 03:32 PM

Has this morphed?
 
Wind power is all over Eastern Oregon and Washington its not much different than looking at all the transmission lines for electricity. As far as placing windmills in the Ocean it sounds like folly to me, evrything I have ever done on the ocean that required moving parts took way to much care and maintanace compared to the same amount of machinery on the land.
As to the subject of Ethanol it takes 500,000 gallons of water over a three month period to raise an acre of corn for the production of Ethanol and if we were to try and replace all "Mid EastOil" with home grown Ethanol it would require the use of 97% of the available agricultural lands now generally in production.( information from an in depth program on investing in energy on CNBC)
Obviously we are not going to do any such thing so we need to continue to try and conserve and to build up public transportation and do more research on Hydrogen Fuel Cells and some form of a clean coal burning process. While a bit convuluted burning coal and pumping the CO2 effluent under ground to produce more oil sounds interesting but I am betting some funds on Hydrogen (putting money where the ole mouth is)

juro 06-03-2006 04:57 PM

On a tangent, but of interest are underground coal fires...

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/e...ish_786127.htm

I had no idea they are such an urgent global concern. The carbon dioxide generated just in the China coal fires equals that produced by all cars in the US.

weremichael 06-14-2006 01:05 PM

After talking to my sister who lives in Boston, apparently these windmills off of Nantucket will mess with fish migration. I was all for it until I heard about that. On the overall esthetic, I love seeing them here in Wyoming. The white contrast compared to dark cloudy skies is beautiful. It affirms that humans can make proper decisions every once in a while.

On the subject of ethanol, it appears that a process has been created that utilize fibrous materials . That seems like a much better solution than using plain old corn.

Michael

beau purvis 06-22-2006 07:25 AM

I like seeing them in Wyoming also.But to make a differnce,would you like seeing them everywhere in WY.I just found out the 3rd generation just got control of one of my favorite texas ranches.Thier interest in it is only income.therfore, they are putting windmills on half the ranch!No longer any hunting access!Way more intrusive looking than the pumpjacks of the oil wells that are there!I llike to drive that ranch for pictures and wildlife viewing.No longer an option let alone searching for another 170 whitetail or chasing Quail!Beau

weremichael 06-23-2006 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau purvis
I like seeing them in Wyoming also.But to make a differnce,would you like seeing them everywhere in WY

Beau,

Of course I don't want to see them everywhere, but the fact is I DO like seeing them in my backyard. It's a sign of true progress. I see it not only as environmentally sound practice but potentially economically helpful for my community. I see wind harvesting as a great alternative for small time ranchers who can't compete with corporate beef. These ranchers should be able to plant these things and supplement their income, instead of selling their land so Billy and Joanne Cityfolk can have their ranchette/"nature" experience.

I do feel your pain in losing one of your favorite hunting/wildlife viewing areas. Some of my favorite streams/mushroom hunting grounds from childhood were destroyed by clearcutting. At least your land/whitetail still exist. You have to at least have solace in that?

As far as comparing the intrusiveness of turbines to well pads, I couldn't disagree more. I view renewable energy extractors as less intrusive (by their very nature they don't intrude as deeply into the earth as any pumpjack) and more aesthetically pleasing than fossil fuel energy extractors.

Being from Oregon (my old home state), you have to love that the Columbia Gourge is turning into a wind mine. Now if we can just harvest enough energy from the turbines to make those damn dams obsolete, then we could all be bonking salmon till our arms can't lift a priest.

The real problem is that we need a lot (I can't stress A LOT enough) energy for our everyday conveniences and the old reliable energy sources are almost gone. Wind is one of the greatest alternative. With that said there are other amazing alternatives too. For example, I bet in Texas that if everybody had solar panels on their home there wouldn't be as many wind turbines cluttering up fine hunting lands.



Michael


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