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-   -   L. Ontario Salmon Ethics (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=12528)

Jim Miller 09-05-2003 12:14 PM

L. Ontario Salmon Ethics
 
I'm going to be controversial, but here goes:
"After being in the river a day or two, I don't think the King Salmon "eat" anymore. I do think they will "snap" at a fly in their face or "clear" a redd of objects and predators (baitfish) when spawning".......

IMHO herein lies the dilema ....you need to present your fly close to the fish, at or near the bottom of the river.......BUT you do not want to foul hook or (line) the fish. This is not so much a problem when the salmon are scattered (you can fish to them and they can avoid your fly).....but when they are stacked up in the deep pools (wire, schoolhouse, cemetary, upper FF area, etc.), it is REALLY TOUGH to not foul hook fish! (I know I'll reget admitting this)

So What is ethical: to fish where the fish are in numbers and do your best to avoid foul hooking OR go to other areas of the river where the fish are not stacked up?
I feel these magnificent fish get a raw deal with so much snagging and lining that is done on purpose.......that the well meaning anglers "should" share info on techniques of "how not to" foul hook these fish... and to still catch them fairly!
Please view this question as being presented by a well meaning poster.

BTW....I've been fishing L. Ontario tribs for close to 20 years.

DARKSTAR 09-06-2003 11:28 AM

Your absolutely right, it IS hard to avoid foul hooking when casting to stacked pools. I break off when I can, if it does happen, and don't fish the real heavy pods for that very reason.

I hooked 2 kings this AM in the lower Salmon, landed one, and both TOOK my fly. Granted these were FRESH fish(probably in the river mouth less then an hour), but the impulse assertiveness is still there. Thats why I like fishing the lower river/mouth. Actually, I will be heading out in the boat this PM to cast streamers at the mouth, i have had good luckwith that technique in the past

Jim Miller 09-06-2003 11:50 AM

Yup Darkstar
I also like to fish from the meadows up to the Joss. And the fish DO strike a fly hard. But those same fish after two days will be in mid river areas and not nearly as aggressive.

I also will break off a foul hooked fish.....it's such a pain to be losing flys....and the salmon (after a week or so) start looking like grandma's pin cushion......adorned with all those breakoff flies, lures, etc.....it does get ugly!

Perhaps you are right....maybe the deep pools & stacked fish should be avoided altogether...(maybe protected?).

The issue becomes even more heated when it pertains to winter steelhead.

It's a tough one and thanks for your input.

Congrats on getting into those early Kings.....they do fight hard! :D :D

MarkNY 09-07-2003 03:18 PM

Early Salmon
 
hi jim, i fish the same water you do. for salmon, i dont fish upriver at all. ill only target them in the DSR when i know i have a good chance to hook a fresh, aggressive salmon. i also stay away from the deep slow pools(which isnt a problem in the DSR) and stick to the moderate depth runs such as the meadow. i also dont bottom bounce for salmon. even when i know there is fish in front of me and im not hooking up, i try not to put more weight on. i may not hook up as much, but i dont foul hook alot of fish when the run is in full strength. now, when i know there are good numbers of steelhead in the river, somtimes like late october, ill fish upriver. when both fish are in the river, i usually fish egg patterns with an indicator that gives me a vertical presentation. i still end up foul hooking some salmon, but it does keep it under control. those are my thoughts. mark

Jim Miller 09-08-2003 06:38 AM

Great tips Mark
I am going to get to the Salmon for a few days in the next week or so. (seems like the run is picking up a little). Have you had much luck swinging speys and streamers on a sinktip? The Glide seems to be good water for this.....when not crowded.

With the steelies: it is tough when they are sitting behind a pod of spawning salmon....to present to the trout ....without hooking a dying salmon.
Thanks for your thoughts.....

MarkNY 09-08-2003 01:59 PM

Salmon
 
hi jim, i do fish wet flies and streamers for salmon. more so than egg patterns and the like. a babine special is one of my go-to's for salmon. i dont normally use sinktips in warm water. a 10-14' leader and either a weighted fly or some shot works good for me. ive started using tube flies, and with a copper tube, i can fish a weighted fly as deep as i want and still be able to cast it pretty well. love fishing the glide, but too bad its close to the parking lot, as you say, gets pretty crowded during salmon season. good luck on your upcoming trip. if you want to get together, PM me. i normally fish the salmon river mon,tues,thur,fri. im sure youll have some good action by next week. weve been doing pretty good at night at the mouth. gonna try it again tonight. regards, mark

Jim Miller 09-09-2003 07:07 AM

Sounds good Mark!
I'll let you know when I get my act together and when i will be out there. Keep us posted on the "Run". How is the new DSR parking/morning admittance program working?

MarkNY 09-09-2003 09:42 AM

DSR
 
hi jim, seems pretty easy. dont know how it will be on sell out days, but its been easy so far. i pulled in at 5:45 the other day, with waders on, waited 5 min, then walked over to the booth and got the first ticket of the day. regards, mark

sleepy weasel 09-09-2003 12:59 PM

Using an indicator to get a vertical presentation will help to keep from snagging or lining fish. Especially if you keep the length of leader/tippet close or less than the actual depth of the water being fished. Even with this technique it helps to be catious with what you are doing and only setting the hook when you know a fish has taken the fly. Sometimes it is easy to tell if the fish has been lined or snagged and not setting the hook will let it be easily pulled out or fall off ect...

I say if fishing a stacked pool is you only chance at a fish then go at it just be carefull.

MarkNY 09-09-2003 09:30 PM

Indicators
 
hi sleepy, good points. thats exactly what i do when fishing indicators. i match the length of my leader exactly to the the depth of water, from indicator to shot, not fly to indicator and not 1 1/2 times the water depth and more. i use an 18" to 24" tippet from shot to fly. works pretty good for me, although you have to choose your indicator water carefully. regards, mark


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