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-   -   Attaching leader to flyline - another query... (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=1058)

Pete 02-04-2000 05:27 PM

Attaching leader to flyline - another query...
 
BB'ers,

Well the wife is away this evening and I'm gonna settle back and watch the OLN and scream at the television tonight (really just at Andy Mill and Trevor Gowdy).

I have a question though and it concerns the way you attach the leader to the flyline. I used to use the loop to loop connectors that you'd put on the end of the flyline and hold in place with some shrink-wrap tubing. It was easy, and I thought effective. However, I poked around a little and casted some other peoples outfits and decided that the braided loops tended to cause loops in the line and resulted in poor presentations (for trout anyway).

As my knot tying became passable I switched to a short section of mono permenantly attached via a nail knot to the end of the flyline. The end of the mono would then get a loop knot to attach the leader. I still use this now, but am wondering if there is a better way. I am unsure of what size (diameter) mono to use for a corresponding line wt. Usually I go with some pretty stout material, never really using anything less than 30lb, even for the 3wt. I even tried to whip a loop in the end of my 5wt line with tying thread (a la Lefty), but I thought it was too bulky for soft landings. So my question is - What do you folks use for both your saltwater and freshwater setups? Are you proponents of the short mono piece, do you prefer to directly nail knot the leader, or do you use another method?

I was out this afternoon casting in the side yard (breaking in the new neighbors [img]http://216.71.206.188/images/flytalk/Wilk.gif" border="0" align="middle">) and got to thinking about this stuff - boy am I jonesing for some fishing. Another thing that I find interesting is how my rods perform when stringing them up with lines rated either 1 line size lighter/heavier than the rod is designed for. Some of the rods I had written off as dogs now seem to be much more useful. I put a 4wt WF line on the 3wt Legend Ultra (taking off the 3wt DT) and the rod performed much better IMO. Could be the differnce between the WF and DT though, as well as the quality of the line (333 vs. SA/Orvis Zebra line). Also I found that my 8wt is still really a nicer 7wt, and the 5wt is gonna be great on the Deerfield or Westfield.

Going to the NE Outdoor Writers Association Banquet and the Worcester Show tomorrow. Anyone else going to be there tomorrow? I've never hit this show, preferring to stick with the Marlboro show. Do they have a decent amount of FF gear?

Have a great weekend <img src="http://216.71.206.188/images/flytalk/Happy.gif[/img]

Pete

juro 02-04-2000 06:33 PM

RE:Attaching leader to flyline - another query...
 
Pete -

I'm a nailknot kind of guy. If you carry the right size needle it's almost as easy as a loop. I will be putting together a tip/technique column in Experts that will go thru it step by step.

Basically you lay the needle along the end of the flyline with the eye at the end of the line. You then double over the butt and wrap up the needle toward the eye. When you get 6 wraps go thru the eye of the needle and pull the needle out through the inside of the wraps. Adjust and tighten.

As far as lining rods, absolutely valid experiments. People always fish 325 grain heads or T-300, T-400, etc. on their 9wts. These are grain weights for 11wt lines (400 is 12wt). Because they are of specialized design, they distribute the grains over a shorter length, allowing for the cast characteristics they offer. Most find them much easier to cast than a long belly line for instance.

This whole experience magnifies for Spey rods. You need to add the human ergo factor into it as well. In other words one guy will cast the same rod well with another line than someone else with the same rod.

For two-handed overhand rods like those we are building, the line weight can be significantly larger than the rating because they are rated for guys that false cast almost the whole line. The rating is therefore not for the first 30 feet but for the operative length.

In the end, it's what works for you without exploding the rod. Some rods will cast better with higher weights but you risk imploding the walls if you try to cast the whole line with a double haul. There's also line management concerns on rivers. If you can't throw the mend you need into a heavy line to position the fly right, the rod will wear on you quickly.

I strung up a spinning rod with a fly line once and it cast beautifully. Wouldn't fish with it all day though, many odd subtleties about it. Sometimes it's these subtleties that are the reasons I flyfish. Especially when the fish ain't biting!

Enjoy the banquet and the show. The Banquest sounds fascinating - where and when? Maybe I'll pop in if I am ahead on Vol 2 rework. Is it invite only?

As far as FF at the show, I gotta figure it's making it's way into every sporting event - but I work at both shows so the urge is low, site rework is more important at this point.

juro 02-04-2000 06:40 PM

RE:Attaching leader to flyline - another query...
 
On a related note... here's a good place to download PDF information about flylines...

<!--http--><a href="http://www.cortlandline.com/catalog.html" target="_blank">Cortland Specs</a><!--url-->

BobD 02-04-2000 10:21 PM

RE:Attaching leader to flyline - another query...
 
Many years ago back in Colorado I always used those braided slip on loops until one day I lost a beautiful 20" rainbow when the loop slipped off my flyline. It was my fault of course I should have inspected the connection before going fishing. But that night I went home and cut all of the braided loops off and replaced them with nail knotted amnesia loops.

I have since been using monofilment loops for my connections. For freshwater I use 20lb and for salt I use 25 or 30lb. On another board I volunteered to research the breakage strength of offshore fly lines. After speaking with folks from RIO, Sci-Angler and others. I found out that on the average a fresh water weight fly line's core has a breakage strength of 20 to 25 lbs and the saltwater can be anywhere from 30 to 35lbs. I will post the results tomorrow in the gear forum on this board. So in the future I am going to make sure that my backing and loop connection do not exceed the breakage strength of the fly line. I had never ever considered that I might set up a system where the fly line was the weakest link. I also try and keep the nail knotted loop as short as possible, trying to remove any chance of hinging.

I just got back from spending the day working the BNTC booth at the worcester show. Not a bad show, but I knew I was a little out of place when over the load speaker they said that the next show was going to be " Catching huge bass presented by so and so over at the Hog Trough". They do have a casting pool with very little back casting room. There are some manufactures there. Loomis, St Croix but mostly geared toward conventional fishing techniques. Although the majority of the questions at our booth concerned fly fishing.

ronl 02-05-2000 12:55 PM

RE:Attaching leader to flyline - another query...
 
Pete- On my saltwater lines I use the loop system a la Lefty and I've never had a problem. Just keep the loop about 1/2 to 3/4 inch long and there isn't alot of splash. You do have to inspect the loops occasionally because the leader might cut thru the coating. On my freshwater line I go withc the nail knot to eliminate any splash. The formula I use for the mono at the butt of my leader or the loop attached to the flyline itself is .67 times the measured(micrometer) diameter of the tip of the fly line. This has worked for me. rel

Pete 02-06-2000 08:20 PM

RE:Attaching leader to flyline - another query...
 
Folks,

Thanks to all of you that responded to the question. I will be doing some re-rigging of the spools.

Got the rod building bug again - started putting together a 4wt this afternoon and will be getting a 9' 4wt and the 8 wt backwater blank (Daimondback). Went to the Worcester show this afternoon and got some components at Cote's booth - kind of fired me up.

There were a lot of cool plastic baits available there (I know that isn't the focus here, but....http://216.71.206.188/images/flytalk/Wilk.gif). I was more than a little dissapointed to see all those birds of prey on display. I realize they are probably all birds that have been rehabbed and cannot be re-released into the wild, but c'mon - having your picture taken with them was a little beat IMNSHO. The trout pool is another issue, but I gotta get off line and clean up my rodbuilding mess.

Juro if you read this I will email you tomorrow, thanks Pete...


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