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sean 04-01-2003 01:06 PM

question for mattzoid
I spey cast rivers for steel and saw your post about fishing the sound with overhand spey casting.

My question is what are the benefits you are seeing with fishing these rods? The east coat guys use them for heavy surf where I can see the advantage of being able to cast over the waves but in the sound we do not have that problem.

The reason I ask is that I have thought about trying them but seeing that I catch the majority of the cutts and silvers within 50 feet down to 1 foot from the shore it seems the long rods adavantage for distance is not necessary. Also getting a fly out quickly to cover a rising fish seems out of the question with a long rod (I could very well be wrong on this one).

Hope you do not take this post the wrong way. I am really interested in hearing about the benefits you are seeing and possibly giving it a try myself.


D3Smartie 04-01-2003 05:46 PM

I hope you dont mind me jumping in and giving my answer sean but there is nothing you can do about it:hehe:

I have used spey rods on the salt but do not prefer them over a good 9' 6 or 7 wt. spey rods as you know can be roll cast very easily and are nice for getting a quick shot out to rising fish but other than that I dont see a big advantage for cutts. A lot of the guys that fish around Point no Point and some of the other similar type beaches use the spey rods but mainly for the silvers.
There is one time that i like having the spey and that is when I am fishing oyster beds and the depth is very constant over a large area. This lets me cast a long distance and stay away from the fish as they can be very spooky when they are on the oyster beds.
I also do not like having such a large rod when I am fighting the fish. I much prefer the feel of the single handed rod when fighting the cutts.

mattzoid 04-23-2003 01:07 PM

Sorry about not responding quicker Sean. I didn't see your post until now. Might have been quicker to email me through the site. I don't care about distance on the salt. I'm just spoiled rotten by Spey casting and only keep my nine footers for the kids. It's all about spending more time with my fly on or in the water, rather that 9 feet off the water. I have caught very few fish nine feet above the water. Also, since I'm not spending all my time false casting, I can fish twice as long. The only time I need distance is when a seal pops his head up. They are too used to nine foot rods and when I shoot a fly in front of their face, they haul ass. Other than that, all my catches have been within 50 feet. I understand also about the big rod on the salt thing. I think I have erradicated the problem with my 5120 from Sage. That 5 wt allows me to fish for trout and the Cutts a lot better. If I ever get out of Puget Sound and fish the surf off the coast, I'd probably use my 12 foot loop 8wt for distance.


Just me 04-23-2003 08:11 PM

I'll agree,He is spoiled on fishing with a spey rod. I think that he has them for all operations now. From salmon to trout with that 5wt sage.


Willie Gunn 04-24-2003 03:39 AM

British v American
I was lost reading this post till I realised when you talk of Spey rods you mean double handed rods. I feel there is a big differance between double handed rods for overhead casting and double handed rods for Spey casting.

Dana, Juro, and other casting experts do you agree? or do you think the term is to entrenched to change an entire nation.

Malcolm (from almost the banks of the Spey)

juro 04-24-2003 05:10 AM

Malcom -

I agree, "night and day". A great spey rod does not perform overhand necessarily well, nor the converse. Although an incidental few do both well, this dual-purpose is not a criteria I see people seeking out since they are looking to either spey cast or overhand cast with two-hands.

I think it's a misnomer that the folks who use two-handed overhand rods and casting here in the northeastern US saltwater scene generalize all rods with the extended lower handles of longer length as spey rods. They are generally not concerned with a rod's spey casting ability, looking specifically for rods with overhand tapers and rarely if ever utilize any spey casts thus IMHO are incorrectly referring to 2-handed rods as spey rods.

I am working on a two-handed overhand rod with Nobuo, it is not a Spey rod... but when completed will be a heck of a two-handed rod for the northeast coastal fishery and perhaps other similar fisheries around the world.

mattzoid 04-24-2003 10:48 AM

Hi Juro,

Last 30 days I've been playing with the 5120 and chasing trout. The Yakima river, Dry Falls Lake and Puget Sound Cutthroat. I refer to that as two handing for trout. On the Yak, I might use a spey line or a few spey casts with the SA steelhead taper, but the majority is still just two handing with shooting heads. I'm going for those light little casts that Goran demonstrated at Kauffmanns spey days. Since there are no specific rods for this purpose, I just use what I can get. So far the 5120 fits the bill even though the rod can handle up to an 8wt. What I really want is an overhead 4wt 12 foot where the bottom two thirds would be fast action and the tip would be a wet noodle. Actually, I don't know what will work. I'm just trying everything two handed. My goal is one cast fly fishing with the ability to spey on small streams. I am the only fruitcake, as far as I can tell, that is even trying this. I'm either wasting my money or an innovator. Frankly, I don't care either way. I'm having a whole lot of fun doing something nobody else has. Sure would like to check out that east coast two handed surf casting one of these days.


juro 04-24-2003 11:23 AM

I think what you're doing is awesome and you are not alone by any means - people all around the world are in a mode of spey discovery. People with single "handled" rods are spey casting more and more. People with double "handled" rods are applying the long rods to more situations and having fun with it. What I suspect will come out of it all are a few, highly-tuned new designs and a lot more people who know how to use the other hand for something besides line management and hauling.

Great stuff! BTW - come on out anytime! Forum folks take care of each other, especially when it gives us an excuse to go fishing... :)

pmflyfisher 04-24-2003 11:39 AM

I've been using the spey rod for steelhead and salmon exclusively the last year and may have forgotten how to false cast the single hander.

Perhaps there is No Exit for me from the spey now ?

PM Out

mattzoid 04-24-2003 12:14 PM

I refuse to exit. About my 9 footers, if my kids don't use 'em, then I'll lose 'em. I might keep the 5 wt for a few 10 foot wide streams, but that's it.


NrthFrk16 04-24-2003 10:28 PM

Hey Matt-
I think, with a little tinkering, you just might be able to find that 12' #4 you are looking for.

I know of a rod builder (designed Sage's finishes) that is in his late 80's that does wonders with rods.

You buy a 4100 XP blank (which is softer more progessive XP) and have him splice in a butt from some other blank...he then buiolds up the rod and voila! have your 12' #4 two-handed rod!

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