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-   >> Archive: Bonefish/Tarpon Flies (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Dick Brown Report (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=10287)

striblue 03-17-2003 06:32 PM

Dick Brown Report
 
I just got a good report from Dick on the use of the Blue Crab in the Bahamas...good in the sence that it was honest and informative... to make a long e-mail short.. he thinks the fly maybe to heavy and the splash factor spooked them... interesting how some species behave differently... a striper does not seem to have that problem....anyway he suggested that I work on the use of the belly material and keep at perfecting it for Bonefish which I will do... he thinks the shape is fine..but hard to tell if they get spooked at the landing. Report like this are good even if they don't say the fly was great...it only gives me more determination to change the carapace but still use the feathers. He offered to try any improvements ... I hope to go down there as well next year so.. I will make this fly work.

juro 03-17-2003 06:52 PM

That's awesome John - everything requires iteration and refinement and time. If you're starting this high on the design, imagine where you'll be after a few tweaks!

Great work Mayor!

striblue 03-17-2003 07:01 PM

Thanks Juro... I am already changing it in my mind.... a smaller carapace,, with the olive feather on top but no carapace epoxy,,, the dunbell eyes will be wrapped in some soft yarn. It will be significantly lighter,,but the concept will stay the same..but with no heavy epoxy,,,,,

Eddie 03-17-2003 07:29 PM

while you are redesigning, consider that Del Brown uses no head cement or epoxy on his crabs. He belives that the scent puts off permit. If you are making a crab fly, think permit too(every crab fly aspires to fool a permit one day). I will be going to Belize on a permit fishing trip in Aug. I would be happy to test out a patern.

striblue 03-17-2003 10:00 PM

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Eddie..I started thinking and doing tonight.. this one is on a size 4 hook and has no significant epoxy, lighter and smaller legs, smaller claws (which I am not sure I like),There is a tuft of rabbit fur around the dumbells to soften a landing and the the only epoxy is very little on the bottom and a drop to secure the hackle feather on top of the foam. I will now be comparing it to the old blue by droping them both into the water as many times as I can to see if I can tell any differences.

Eddie 03-18-2003 07:16 AM

John, I was wondering if the foam forces you to add more weight to counter the bouant nature of the foam. Do you think the fly would be lighter and sink faster if you used anothe material? Less weight = less slpash. I wonder if you could tie the fly all feather? Maybe stiffened up with...I don't know. Glue Gun?
Also, I noticed when testing my shrimp fly that it sank well in fresh(tap)water, but I needed to add weight for salt.
I love the legs and claws.

striblue 03-18-2003 08:58 AM

Yes Eddie..I am thinking that also and will experiment.. I will keep my striper crab as is since I know that works..but the idea of adding the feather is good. I know I have seen some crabs with the feather only..but I will do it different.. maybe a soft body of yarn to support the top feathers. I will keep Dick brown in the loop as I try to perfect this... I am looking for Volunteers in the next month or so who are going to the Bahamas and I will have several prototypes with these changes to try out...

flyfisha1 03-18-2003 10:22 AM

How about using "fuzzy foam" as the carapace material? Light, slightly buoyant, could be used with no epoxy.
I tied a variation of one of your crab apples last week; this one stands up in the defensive posture, doing so by leaning on a rattle rather than using monofilament to "make a stand" (as some other patterns do). I'll get a couple of pics of it tonight. This fly was designed for redfish, snook, tarpon, and stripers, more than it was for bones or permit. This is the first crab fly I've ever tied that I can truly be proud of. I would imagine that the noise created by "spalsh down" of this fly would spook some of the more wary flats fish... I'd rather hook a jack than a bonefish, anyway. :)

flyfisha1 03-19-2003 06:34 AM

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Okay, a few pics of my crabby pattern, which I have dubbed the "Pi$$ed-Off Crab", as it appears to be in the defensive posture and makes noise, which could be similar to the sounds of the crab's exoskeleton moving as the creature flees from hungry predators.

flyfisha1 03-19-2003 06:35 AM

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Another...

flyfisha1 03-19-2003 06:42 AM

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And the underside, which is admitedly rough, but I haven't had much time to work on this pattern lately. Subsequent versions will be a little more refined, I'm sure.
Hook is a standard SW stainless hook, in this case a size 2 811S.
Carapace is white craft foam (adhesive back), on top of which was placed a pair of webby hackles.
Legs and claws are badger hackles.
Eyes are melted 50-lb. mono.
Mouth is hot orange flashabou and tan marabou.

I already have a list of aspects that need to be changed and/or refined for the future of this "pattern"; once again, this stems from Striblue's crab apples and the standing crab.

striblue 03-19-2003 10:04 AM

Looks Great!... I thought of furry foam... but will do something different to keep it in the Crab Apple style... The foam without the epoxy and the feathers over without epoxy has decreased the weight substantially and I will also make something to cushion the dumbells... I will make sure I am using the Pheasant feathers for claws since that is an integral part of the uniqueness of the crab.

ssully 03-25-2003 10:36 PM

John,

Just a thought but have you considered replacing the dumbell eyes with bead chain to cut the weight? Sili-skin may work as a substitute for the epoxy also. Again just a thought for a bones version. It is a beautiful fly.

I can't wait to field try my sluggo umm.. er ..ah ...siliskin sandeel this year. ;-) I know it's gonna kick a$$ on stripers.

Mackeral chunk fly in the works. It's heavy as hell though.:D

flyfisha1 03-26-2003 06:18 AM

Tied another crab up the other night, this time I used white acrylic caulk from Lowe's to coat the underside and cover the dumbbells. I'm not sure if the coating will have any impact on the noise made during entry, however I also tied this on a number 6 rather than the number 2 that I tied the previous fly on, so it's much smaller. I'll tie a few more of each up using this "technique".
Quick question regarding the noise made during entry: if you were casting using more of a side-arm stroke, rather than over-head or off-shoulder, the fly would have less distance to drop to the water on the completion of the cast. Wouldn't this at least help compensate for some of the noise and spalsh created as the fly touches down on the water surface?

GOTCH 02-02-2005 12:50 PM

NOISY ENTRY
 
IN REGARDS TO MAKING TOO MUCH NOISE SOME OF US THINK IT SCARES OFF THE FISH SOMETIMES IT DOES OTHER TIMES IT DOESN'T A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO THIS IS TO TIE UP FLIES USING THE SAME HOOK WITH DIFFERENT SIZE EYES AND ALSO DIFFEREN'T TYPES OF EYES. WATER DEPTH/WIND CONDITIONS(CHOPPY WATER) AND HOW AGGRESSIVE A FISH IS AND ALSO WATER CLARITY ALL PLAY A PART IN WHAT YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH. oN A TRIP TO THE BAHAMAS IT WAS VERY WINDY AND THE WATER WAS VERY CHOPPY AND THE BONEFISH BECAME EXTREMELY SKITTISH WHICH BAFFLED US BECAUSE YOU WOULD THINK THAT CHOPPY/NOISEY WATER WOULD DULL THEIR SENSES HOWEVER AFTER OBSERVING THIS HAPPENING WE SWITCHED THE SIZE OF OUR EYES (SMALLER SIZE ) AND WERE BACK INTO FISH AS TO WHY THIS HAPPENED I CAN'T TELL YOU BUT I BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE OF THE EXTRA NOISE FROM THE CHOPPY WATER THE BONEFISH BECAME EXTRA ALERT OF NOISES AS THEY ARE CONSTANTLY BEING PREYED ON BY SHARKS/BIRDS OR WHATEVER ELSE EATS THEM AND IF YOU WERE DEAF YOU WOULD RELY ON YOUR OTHER SENSES BECAUSE THEY WOULD BECOME STRONGER BONEFISH HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO EVOLVE THEIR SENSES AND SURVIVAL METHODS/DEFFENSES SO THE SPLASH FROM THE EYES ON THAT CHOPPY DAY SCARED THEM MAYBE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS SOMETHING AFTER THEM. OTHER TIMES USED BIG FLIES/BIG EYES EVEN IN QUIET CONDITIONS AND HAD NO PROBLEM. HOPE THIS HELPS


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