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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-20-2003 03:13 PM
flytyer Don,

Don't know if I can make it Friday because I have to be in Stanwood at 7:00 p.m. Friday evening. If I can get down, it would be in the early afternooon.

Spiking a Nor-vise would probably entail a penalty being imposed by the referees at Avid Angler, possibly by Norm himself. And what's a hook imbedded in one's anatomy anyway? If a person has not impaled himself on a hook when tying, he is not worthy of the title fly tyer.
11-20-2003 02:24 PM
SDHflyfisher
salmn8r

that's one hell of an imagination you got there
11-20-2003 09:02 AM
John Desjardins Salmn8r, thats quite an image you paint there. Tears came to my eyes from laughing.
11-20-2003 01:14 AM
Don Johnson
Whew!!!

Well, I'm there from Friday at noon until Saturday evening...maybe you can show Friday night for a bit if you get a chance. Scott will be there from about 6:30 or so.

To be honest, I'm kind of relieved. I had a vision of you swaggerin' in with a Magnum finisher on one hip, a Standard on the other and two full bandoliers of S&M bobbins draped across you like Pancho Villa. You could hear a sz 28 emerger fart as the dust settled then, in a wicked display of ambidextrous speed, you simultaneously double whip a Fore and Aft before I can say "Go!". Really embarassing after all the hype.

The other vision I had was you dislocating your pinkie finger trying to go too fast then impaling your forehead on the hook as you winced in agony...all while the ABC "Wide World of Sports" theme resonates "...and the Agony of Defeat..." in the background. As we call 911 to come cart you to the ER I spiked my Nor-Vise in the corner and high-fived my water boy, not that I would ever try to rub it in or anything.

Either way, it would have been ugly.

Take care!
Don Johnson
11-20-2003 12:26 AM
flytyer Don,

I love that wicked sense of humor you have, it is very refreshing.

Be assured there was no offense taken.

I had originally planned on getting down to Avid Angler this Saturday since I haven't had the chance to see and visit with Alec for the last year. I also wanted to meet Stu and Scotty so I could put a face to the names, and it would be an honor to also meet you. Unfortunately, my wife informed me last week that we have another commitment for the Saturday that starts at 9:00 a,m, and ends at 4:00 p.m. so it looks like I'm not going to be able to get down (domestic tranquility is important).

Don't you just hate it when there is more than one thing going on that you want to do?
11-20-2003 12:08 AM
Don Johnson
ooooh, I smell a challenge

Quote:
Originally posted by flytyer
To all of you who worry about not being able to use a whip finish tool to tie a whip finish at the bend end of a large, or extra-long shank hook, Materelli has both a standard length and an extended reach whip finisher. I own both.

I also feel a need to say that before I began usijng the Materelli whip finisher about 22 years ago, I tied whip finishes with my hand. The Materelli is far faster, and I never need to worry about the thread getting caught on a piece of skin, a cut from a hook point, or a callous.
Flytyer,
To begin, I fully realize material and tools usage is highly subjective and so please don't take my questions/comments as a personal jab. They are not intended as such.

I'm not worried about using a whip finisher anywhere, but if you sell those on eBay you might be able to get those extra S&M bobbins you wanted.

I must admit the speed concept still baffles me; maybe I'm dillusional. I say we meet Saturday (11/22/03) at the Caddis for Kids event held at the Avid Angler, High Noon for a Whip-Finish shoot out (insert the famous whistling from the Clint Eastwood movie). If you really think you can pick up a tool, whip and clip faster than someone operating sans tool then I say "Bring It On". I'd say "mano-y-mano" but you will be cheating.

Anyway, I win, you donate 5 bucks to the charity. You win, you can have a Miracle Caddis Pack AND I'll take my first whip finisher lesson from you.

Your advantage: I will have been tying for 24 hours and will be seeing 4 or 5 of everything so even tying my shoes will be tough.
My advantage: I will have done at least 500 hand whip-finishes by then and should be warmed up...I hope!

Looking forward to the opportunity to at least put a face and a handshake to the username!

Take care,
Don Johnson
salmn8r@yahoo.com
caddisforkids@yahoo.com
11-19-2003 09:50 PM
flyfisha1 Hmmm, my point was that a hackle that's a smidge too long won't matter for this particular attractor pattern.
11-19-2003 09:29 PM
flytyer To all of you who worry about not being able to use a whip finish tool to tie a whip finish at the bend end of a large, or extra-long shank hook, Materelli has both a standard length and an extended reach whip finisher. I own both.

I also feel a need to say that before I began usijng the Materelli whip finisher about 22 years ago, I tied whip finishes with my hand. The Materelli is far faster, and I never need to worry about the thread getting caught on a piece of skin, a cut from a hook point, or a callous.
11-19-2003 09:27 PM
SDHflyfisher
Quote:
Originally posted by flyfisha1
; bass, for instance, aren't noted for being picky about such things.

tell that to a pro bass fisherman and he or she will laugh in your face

I think it depends on the conditions
11-19-2003 09:11 PM
flyfisha1 I typically have a mug of green tea or a cold beer on hand, the clock radio on to NPR (which works out well since I typically tie in the evenings and that's when they have their jazz shows playing). Otherwise, since I've only been tying a few years, I don't have any set ways; I just do whatever is required of the pattern to get "something fishy".

I'll have to try one of those whip finishers you guys are talking about; I must admit, the one part of my tying that needs the practice is using a whip-finishing tool. I'll have a look at Hunter's and see what's cooking. I finish my flies with (gasp) a few overhand knots... and they look fine and are very durable. Still, I'd still like to learn to whip finish.

John - I had to do a double take on that fly. At first, I thought the tail was olive-dyed deer hair... that would be an interesting pattern. Oh, and frankly I don't think that the fish really care if the hackle is a bit too long; bass, for instance, aren't noted for being picky about such things.
11-19-2003 03:24 PM
Don Johnson
idiosyncracy question

Why go through all the trouble to have everything optimized for maximum efficiency only to have to pick up a tool to tie a simple knot?

The best whip finisher is at the end of your arm. You don't need to pick it up because it's right there (or left there depending on your perrogative). It was free. If you lose it, you have other problems to worry about besides finishing the head of a fly. Accuracy, as it pertains to finishing the head of a fly, is moreso a trait of the user not the tool, in my opinion. The hand whip-finish is vastly more versatile than any tool on the market. As an example I offer the scenario of performing a whip finish at the end of a Carrie Stevens streamer hook, or any long-shank hook for that matter, or over a bullethead with rubber hackle hanging out or, well, you get the point. The hand whip-finish is also faster, hands down, no pun intended.

For me, about the only advantages I see a tool having over my fingers is that it doesn't have callouses or anything else that frays thread. Given a few more years and the potential dwindling nimbleness of the digits, I might have to get a tool to combat arthritis. We'll see. Maybe by then they'll have one with batteries so it'll be faster than my manual thread manipulation.


Don Johnson
Shelton, WA
11-17-2003 01:04 PM
FrenchCreek A.K.A as personal oddity!
When I started tying many many moons ago, we were of modest means so my Dad (and I learned this form him, among many other things) would be extremely frugal.
I mean close to being cheap, one thing that has stuck with me over the yeras is working real hard at maximizizing every inch or pinch or dubb of material and creating the tools that we could not afford. I still "make" a lot of my tying material(s) no longer to be so frugal but just for the fun of it.
Being an avid hunter as well as FFsher, I have an extensive collection of deer, moose, elk and caribou hair, of various lengths, coarseness, and color! More than I'll ever be able to use in 999 lifetimes, But what the heck, it's an obsession right? Or oddity!
11-17-2003 11:24 AM
Dble Haul I have to agree with flytyer here....the Matarelli finisher is far faster than doubling over a piece of 4X.

My idiosyncracies? If I'm not fishing, then I'm tying. And if I'm not tying, then I'm fishing. And if I'm not doing either one, chances are that I'm thinking about them.

I suppose that my one habit for years was that I couldn't wrap my mind around the concept of "less is more", especially when it came to thread wraps. For some time my ties were too bulky, but I thought that I'd be compromising durability if I reduced the thread wraps. Then I eventually put some faith in the advice of others, turned a corner, and began to make flies with the right proportions without compromising durablity. Eureka!

My other habits include having a ball game of some sort on the tube (but not to the point of distraction), occasionally having a cold beer (but not to the point of sloppy tying), and putting things back so I can find them later (but not to the point of being immaculate).
11-16-2003 05:01 PM
flytyer BobK,

I respectfully disagree on the use of a whip finisher being slower than using the loop method, or the hand/finger method of tying a whip finish. The Materelli style whip finisher will tie the whip finish faster and place it more accurately than either the loop or hand methods. All it takes is a little practice.

I will grant you that the vast majority of whip finishers on the market, which are copies of the Thompson whip finisher, are slow and clumsy compared to the loop method or hand/finger methods. The Materelli style whip finishers are in a different category altogether than the Thompson style ones and allow you to produce the whip finish very quickly and accurately.
11-16-2003 09:16 AM
SDHflyfisher neat little trick same thing someone would do with guide wrappings
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