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Lines, Loops and Leaders Line / Leader Recipes, Loops, Splices, etc.

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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-11-2003 07:59 PM
Nooksack Mac
Blood or Uni?

In building leaders, I've always used blood knots for all of the transition sections, both for their small mass and for the fact that both upper sections come out straight, not offset. I can't recall a blood knot ever failing me, even though it's weaker on a % basis than some other knots. For connecting the tippet section to the next section up, I use uni-knots. I'd still like to find a stronger line-to-line connecting knot.
04-11-2003 08:37 AM
John Desjardins Stiff butts:

Use the Chamelon, or go up a size in what your using and add a 6" section to the transition region. I've used Mason in the salt water leader recipe and it is stiffer than the line with an 8 wt.
04-11-2003 08:15 AM
BigDave Thanks John,

Now I just have to find somewhere local that sells good hard mono for leaders.

Bob - I use the albright the same as you for my SW lines. Works great.
04-10-2003 06:39 PM
Decisions, decisions....

Notice I said a triple or quadruple surgeon's knot. It seems as strong as a blood knot, but is probably as large in the "quad" form. But it is easier to tie - especially with cold, numb hands.

I tie my leaders up ahead of time, and keep them in money envelopes for convenience. Sometimes, on stream and with cold hands, I just replace the whole leader, rather than having to screw around tying on a new tippet. I can do that easier in the comfort of my own home!

(Oh, I forgot - I albright knot a short piece of heavy leader material to the tip of my fly line, waterproof it well, tie a perfection loop in the short piece of mono, and I have a permanent loop connection. All my leaders have loops, so making the change of leaders is easy. Why don't I use a nail knot for the connection??? Easy. Nail knots are known to slip on newer technology lines with mono cores; albright knots apparently don't. I was told this by one of the line manufacturer's reps.)

04-10-2003 05:56 PM
SDHflyfisher i couldn't find the booklet i'll post it when i find it

i always use a blood knot
04-10-2003 05:53 PM
John Desjardins This is what I have for recipes, All are for Maxima so I have them in # test rather than dia.

~ 9'- 5X
# test Length
25 24" Chamelon
20 12" ""
15 8
12 6
10 6 Switch to Ultragreen
8 8 Ultragreen
5 10 ''"
3 32

For 7-8 x cut the 3# to 12" and use 30" for a tippet.

saltwater 15# 5'
40# 20"
30# 10"
25# 5"
20# 5"
15# 20"
04-10-2003 12:10 PM
BigDave If I am repairing the taper section of a leader or tying a saltwater leader, I will always use a blood knot.

Almost always use a surgeon's for the leader/tippet connection because it's so easy.

I think a blood knot is the strongest provided you can seat it right and not burn the mono when tightening. Gives you a straigher connection from section to section too.
04-10-2003 12:04 PM
John Desjardins
Originally posted by mjyp

Which is stronger or more efficient, a blood or a 2x or 3x surgeon's knot???

I like the surgeon's knot, but a blood knot is smaller and neater.
I've found that when tying up leaders off the water I tie a good strong blood knot. On the water I tie weak blood knots (buck fever ?), but I tie triple surgeons well. So for me at least, its a split as to what gets used.
04-10-2003 11:30 AM
removed_by_request Bob,

You bring a question to mind.

Which is stronger or more efficient, a blood or a 2x or 3x surgeon's knot???

I like the surgeon's knot, but a blood knot is smaller and neater.
04-10-2003 11:11 AM
Knots in fluoro.....

Knots in fluoro. whether tying to fluoro or mono, can be a problem with fluoro because of friction. Just remember these two tricks -
1. wet the knots well before tightening;
2. Pull tight with a "jerk".

For fluoro tippets, the blood knot can be used, but most of the fishers around here (me included) use a three or four turn surgeon's knot for that portion of the leader. Yeah, we use blood knots for the rest of it.

For your consideration....

04-10-2003 09:20 AM
John Desjardins I'm hoping for a short outing Saturday morning, before the annual brush fire. Last weekend was a washout with the wife suffering from a stomach bug.
04-10-2003 09:16 AM
BigDave Thanks John,

Have you been out yet this spring? I did pretty well out in Ware last weekend and will be out both days this weekend as well.

I'll be the 6'4" guy with the red sunglasses driving a black explorer. Stop and say hi if you're on the water.
04-10-2003 09:09 AM
John Desjardins Dave, I'll check at home for the recipe I use to duplicate the Maxima leaders that have a chameleon butt/UG tippet. I think it ends up as a 9' 6x.
04-10-2003 09:00 AM

Thanks everyone for thier imput here!

Bob - Leadercalc is exactly what I was looking for. Can't beleive I hadn't stumbled across this before.

Juro - Thanks for your insights here and I look forward to seeing your own calculation progam - esp. for saltwater applications.

My main interest here is tying trout leaders for spring-creek type situations. Most of my fishing is 5x or finer and the composition can have a lot of bearing on your presentation, say during a sz. 22 bwo hatch. My frustration with the extruded leaders is that no matter what the manufacturers say, you can't have your cake and eat it too with prefab leaders. The turnover of a stiff butt section and the suppleness of a limp tippet section can not be acheived by a gradual taper of one material. This is especially apparent when fishing big dries or a hopper/dropper rig when it's windy.

While we're at it - has anyone experienced problems with blood-knotting floro to floro in finer diameters? This would be for the mid section of the leader of say a 6x leader. A surgeons knot will hold the connection for the tippet but I'm looking for the transfer of energy that can only be acheived by a blood knot.

Thanks again to all,

04-10-2003 08:50 AM
John Desjardins Nobody mentioned it here but one thing that you will quickly learn when you tie leaders is how much extra line you need for the knot. So when you cut off a section of line it needs to be longer than the length of line in the formula. I've found that I need to add ~5-6" extra per blood knot to the segment length.

And from experience don't cut all the sections for multiple leaders ahead of time. It can be a fun job figuring out what is what after the child picks them all up and runs around asking whats this dad? .
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