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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-10-2000 10:06 AM
trutta
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

In some instances little brookies reproduce like mad and then you get a population of stunted fish. This one and the one from the previous photo are from a 2 acre pond in Quebec. It's absolutely loaded with them but the one you see here is pretty big. Also, note the parr marks on this and especially the fish on the previous picture, and these are adult fish!
I remember fishing a beaver pond in northern NY state once. It was absolutely loaded with 4 to 7" dinks. a 9 incher was a trophy. Man are they gorgeous!


02-10-2000 08:14 AM
Lefty
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

Nice picture trutta! I fear for those little guys over the last 2 years of drought we've had. Anyone want to bushwack 1 mile with a compass to see a few? Not too far from Blue Northern either.I've been curious to see if they survived the low waters. Just need a few weeks to warm up. Who knows, they could have buldozed in a development of Trophy houses by now...depressing.

As for the mighty Merrimack, some day...

This site is very telling in numbers of fish.

<a href="http://www.fws.gov/r5cneafp/table.html" target="_blank"><!--auto-->http://www.fws.gov/r5cneafp/table.html</a><!--auto-->
02-10-2000 06:57 AM
trutta
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

Speaking of wild, native little brookies... check out the colors on this one. As my signature suggests, I'm haunted by browns but who can argue with patterns and colors like these.

02-10-2000 06:57 AM
juro
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

I believe there is a lot more good news in the area of wild and native brookies buried in the snarly spring waters of the region. In fact, I saw a very small brookie finning around in a tiny feeder creek in a marsh in Groton. I recall finding streams along backwoods fire roads up in New Hampshire that were loaded with native brookies - how do we know? The warden told us as he checked our licenses. It was clear he had a personal attachment to these fish.

Along the Swift, Saco and Sugar Rivers in NH you can find the tiniest fry along the shoreline pockets - barely an inch long but brightly marked with parr marks and the characteristic leading edge fin highlights of brookies.

Out west you could find loads of salmon, cuttthroat and steelhead streamborn fry along the shore gravel. Seeing these tiny fry always gave me a profound feeling of relief that the priceless treasure of native species still survives in spite of it all.

I'd like to see the Merrimac brought back to a salmon river. Of course the strain is extinct due to dams, but here is a case where I would be in favor of stocking via VB boxes or fry. Pete MacNeil - what are the chances?

I know John Greenwood up in NH Anadromous and will be talking to him about a article about the legacy of our very own Merrimac. You'd be amazed at the grand salmon river we killed right here in our backyard. His slides and stories are told with the same concern as the warden on the Kancamagus fire road.
02-09-2000 11:54 PM
ssully
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

Terry,

They sure tasted like native brookies. I got one whole sandwich outta the three of them.

Seriously I believe they were natives as this spot contains a spring fed feeder stream. It is one of only two places in this part of the state that I have ever caught them. I was originally fishing for leftover stockies on a beautiful fall afternoon when I got this pleasant little surprise. Which in actuality went back in as fast as they came out.

In the past when I have run into the "Trout Wagons" I have helped them unload the fish. What a nice guy! But have never seen fish this small stocked.

I could ask the people that I know at MA F&W if there is a brookie smolt stocking program in the NE.
02-09-2000 06:50 PM
Lefty
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

Juro: All set. I took no offense. Imagine my horror at realizing I came off looking like a "Freezer Stuffer". Afterall, I worked damn hard to become an Elite- Flytossing-Conservationist-Entymologist . I had to scramble to prove my CRUDentials.

Funny thing is, moving over to the salt, the GREAT BIG OCEAN, there are similar concerns. Just look at the Striper reg debate. The question is for me is: will I do enough for conservation this year? I hope I can contribute something each year.

Hey Sully, I've seen small beautifully colored fingerling brookies also in Middlessex County. I was convinced they were natives. Question is, does the state dump 3-4" brookies in???? Are we fooled or are there wild trout really out there within miles of the Urban fringe?

Terry
02-09-2000 05:49 PM
juro
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

Tim -

Count me in for sure! Let me know when.

Juro
02-09-2000 04:41 PM
juro
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

You're right Terry, and once again I didn't mean to imply anything about you with my questionable choice of places to make a comment like that.

I fish for hatchery fish like everybody else, maybe not specifically for them but I fish in places where they are.

I guess what I am saying is that aside from all the reality we gotta face I am deeply concerned about what we're doing to native fish the world over. I'm not saying I have the answer but I know hatcheries aren't the solution.

You're right about hatcheries for rivers and ponds where certain species can't thrive on their own. The introduction of gamefish has created more conservationists and sportsmen than any book or commercial. We are far, far beyond the ideals of native fish everywhere but I would vote in favor of protecting native salmonids at all cost. This wouldn't preclude the introduction of hatchery fish into our recreational ponds and streams, it just means that where there is a native strain worth saving or protecting, we choose the integrity of that over stocking.

So forgive me if I misread your post, and hope I've isolated the point I intended to make.
02-09-2000 04:21 PM
timwatts
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

Speaking of native fish if anyone's interested I along with the state's adopt a stream program will be doing some work on the weweantic river in wareham this season. It,s quite a unique river for this area. At it's mouth it drains into Buzzards Bay where there is a small dam, three miles upstream there is another dam. In between the two dams there is a beautifull piece of river about twenty feet wide and made up of pools, riffles, boulders and gravel.This part of the river is undeveloped for the most part and reminds one of a woodland stream up north. The river used to have a native run of salters as did many of the areas rivers. According to the state fisheries folks they never stocked it in the past due to pollution problems and the head of tide dam that has very poor fish passage. Pollution there no longer seems to be a problem and the state is looking into improving the fish passage.The most encouraging part of this is that a fellow has had a trout hatchery on a small branch of the river for about seventy years and he raises Brook trout along with Browns and Rainbows.What we are going to do is put some recording thermometers in there this summer and check the stream flow levels throughout the season to determine if we can get the salters running up there again.If any one from the area is interested in participating please let me know.

Thanks Tim
02-09-2000 03:12 PM
ssully
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

This past October I fished a spot not far from home that surprised me with three natives of about 4-5". Pretty little guys in fall colors. This is a river that is stocked heavily.
02-09-2000 02:56 PM
Lefty
RE:Seasons coming, whats up? Wild Trout?

Oops, misread me there Juro. Sorry to come off like a meat fisherman(aka: Hatchery Truck Chaser). I was using the stocking program as a benchmark for time. We must be nearing spring if stocking is near. That's all. I've been through the TU brainwashing too.

That clarified: It does bring up a topic. I've always advocated the latest thinking of rebuilding sustainable WILD trout stocks over dumping truckfulls of stockers. But what of the rivers and streams that have no prayer of sustaining wild trout. What of the Ipswich, Shawsheen, etc, etc. These rivers have no hope of ever being clean, cold, and oxygenated enough for evan many holdovers. Is it wrong to stock them? Do we stop stocking them in the face of the bait fishermen who have fishing them for years? And if we do, will these same worm dunkers start putting pressure on the last few wild resources. I abandoned the depressing trout fishing of eastern Ma. years ago. Heck, I evan did a float plane trip into the Allagash Wilderness once to find that area hurting and heavily regulated. I find that guides and fishermen alike tend to paint pristene pictures of bountiful fisheries when the reality is to the contrary. What to do?
I too prefer a clean native stream, but in Urban or Suburban settings? where do you draw the line. For instance I see the Squanacook River as salvageable(convertable). But once you get inside the beltways it becomes dicey. When people stop watering there lawns and dumping phosphates, then we can hope.
Terry
02-09-2000 01:18 PM
juro
RE:Seasons coming, whats up?

Your post reminds me to add leader recipes in our "Vested Knowledge" library. I use the 60/20/20 rule with compounded tapers for longer leaders, and simple three pc. leaders for sinking lines in the surf or winter steelhead leaders.

With every indulgence there is a price and meaning no disrespect to your enthusiasm I feel obligated to mention the downside of the hatchery mentality...

Picture a stream where a few wild brookies are carving out a living after wiggling from the gravel, consuming their yolk sac, and learning to eat the various food items available in the stream. Each individual includes the notion of territory and occupies a niche in this microcosm of survival.

Along comes the truck, pouring thousands of pellet-fed clones whose version of territory is a concrete pool. I'm certain there is a high degree of predation too, since the size / age ratio is so drastic when there are pellets involved. Hatchery trucks like them big and stupid.

Anyway before I get too dark and dreary on the topic, I just wanted to point out that true stewardship of the resource goes beyond what anglers pleasures dictate. I derive more joy from a healthy native stream than a million hatchery sustained fisheries.

.02
02-09-2000 11:42 AM
Lefty
Seasons coming, whats up?

Well we made it this far. I'm just about ready for the coming season. This has been a very interesting winter for me. My 1st being on the web obsessed with FF in the off season. Just think there will be hatchery trucks making the rounds in 3 weeks.

I tied some leaders last night like so:

Nail knot 30 lb mono butt 1' to fly line, double surgeon loop (dsl)on end of that
20lb. Maxima 3' section loop to looped to butt
15 lb. Fluoro tippett 3' loop to loop

I've run out of prep stuff to do so it's back to more tying.
What are you guys up to?

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