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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-26-2002 11:05 AM
pmflyfisher John,

"Immediate Release" never heard of that one. I have about 30 corporate lawyers I could ask for an interpreation of this, but none of them are fly fisherman or fishery litgators as far as I know.

The Umpqua regs I believe are going after the lead core lines some fellows use out west in their fast deep narrow white water and pools. Normal sink tip and sinking fly lines I believe are acceptable.

Fred Evans who lives near the Umpqua on the Rogue can advise on this. He is our resident SW Oregon steelhead spey fly fishing subject matter expert.

06-26-2002 06:19 AM
Umpqua Restrictions


When they are talking about "no metal core lines", would that include the sink tips and full sinking fly lines that we use? Or, would that be specifically something like an LC-13?

Some of the regs that they can come up with these days are "out of control".

I am currently trying to get an interpretation of "immediate release" in our regs. Basically, if you caught a fish in a C&R area you break the law if you take a measurement, a picture, or a weight. I toil over this reg all the time since that is pretty much what I fish for is a "picture" (as do most of the people I know). I can understand that this is designed to lessen fish mortality but if you look closely, every fish picture I have ever taken has water dripping off the fish. What happens if I catch one of those world records I've been chasing?

06-25-2002 09:10 PM
pmflyfisher John,

Here are the new restrictions for the N. Umpqua fly fishing section from Oregon fishing regs. Gotta love this internet 5 years ago it would have taken a week or more to get the regs via mail from the DNR"

Looks like you can use a spinning or bait casting rod with a bubble and unweighted fly. Also sinking lines are allowed but no C+D or Indicator fishing.

I could survive here with my sink tips and large hook sparsley dressed speys and AS type hair wings.


Open for adipose fin-clipped coho salmonAug. 1-Dec. 31.
(31 miles)

The following restrictions apply year round:

Restricted to use of single barbless unweighted artificial fly.

For the purposes of this rule, an unweighted artificial fly is defined as: a conventional hook that is dressed with natural
or artificial materials, and to which no molded weight (such as split shot, jig heads or dumbbell eyes), metal wire, metal beads, bead chain eyes, or plastic body are affixed, and to which no added weight, spinning or attractor device, or natural bait is attached.

Any type rod or reel permitted, but no metal core lines and no added weights or attachments to line, leader or fly (including, but not limited to, strike indicators) except nonfly monofilament lines may have a casting bubble or similar floating device.

No angling from a floating device.
06-25-2002 07:12 PM
pmflyfisher Mike

Good luck, I just hope they keep this law out of my Michigan steelhead and salmon waters. I have enough laws to abide with and competition. Looks like a difficult one to comply with and enforce.

06-25-2002 06:44 PM
If worst comes to worst

I do a lot of fishing in New York, so these regulation changes will affect me. The way I understand this law regarding the long leaders is to prevent the guys nymphing/lining with with long mono leaders and a floating line, however the same result could be achieved by swining a long leader right along bottom, although not the preferred technique I sure. If worst came to worst and while using a sink tip you wanted to fish a leader longer than 4ft you might have to place a micro shot within 4ft of your fly, which wouldn't affect your presentation but would make you legal.

On another note, how does this law apply to the guy wanting to fish a floating line a no weight on the fly. Would he be breaking the rules by have a leader longer than 4ft or would a C.O. understand he is only fishing in the top 1ft or so of water?

I'm sure this regulation will become more complicated in the future as more people ask more questions such as those above.

06-25-2002 03:50 PM
FlyFishAR Hal:

I stand corrected. My next door neighbor was recently a fish biologist there. I misunderstood what he had told me. My apologies. But they have fairly restricted the methods by which you are allowed to fish.

06-25-2002 02:12 PM
pmflyfisher I don't think the Umpqua is dry fly only just no weighted flies or split shot etc. the last I heard. Wet flies and nymphs are ok.

Fred, whats up on the Umpqua ?
06-25-2002 09:21 AM
FlyFishAR Hal:

I assume they are intending the term "added weight" to indicate weight attached to the leader system and not the actual fly line itself. An added weight and long leader can be drifted horizontally down stream, mended to insure a drift. With weight on the leader and a weighted fly on the end you could basically keep several feet of leader drifting sideways, a few inches off the bottom of the river. Anything that the leader catches on the hook will drag across. Another of the fine fishing techniques probably created in Arkansas. Surly they are not intending to limit the distance between a sinktip and the fly to 4 feet. But, since I have heard they have now limited 30 miles of the Umpqua steelhead area to "dry fly only", I guess anything is possible.

06-25-2002 08:56 AM
John Desjardins I think that NY has been thinking about the short leader rule for a couple of years now. If you can get a hold of him, Randy Jones could probably give you some more info on the history.
06-24-2002 06:38 PM
New York - New Anti Snagging Laws

Great they are doing this but I wonder how they will interpret sinking head fly lines and the leader length attached to them ?

4 foot is to small, hardly ever use that length unless the river is really high and clouded etc...

Michigan has no reg on leader length but does on hook gap size and no weight below the lure, fly or bait. Have to check again since some things are changing this year.



For More Information Contact: Leslie R. Wedge, Fisheries Manager

NYSDEC - Region 7

1285 Fisher Avenue

Cortland, NY 13045-1090

607-753-3095, ext. 212

The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) will conduct a public meeting to review proposed
changes in fishing regulations for Lake Ontario tributaries in Region 7 (Cayuga and Oswego Counties) at the Oswego County
BOCES located just west of Mexico on County Route 64 on August 14 from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. The proposed regulation
changes were developed in response to numerous complaints from the angling public about widespread illegal snagging of
trout and salmon. If the proposal is enacted, changes in regulations will take effect October 1, 2002.

A panel of 17 expert fishermen was assembled to advise DEC on issues in the Salmon river and Oswego River fisheries. The
panel was comprised of area guides, and other anglers with extensive experience but no commercial interests in the fishery.
Panel members were longtime residents of the area or individuals who had fished there for many years. Many of the panel
members also have extensive experience fishing for salmon and steelhead on many other Lake Ontario tributaries and in the
Pacific Northwest.

The goal was to develop a regulations package that would allow DEC law enforcement personnel to be more effective in
curtailing illegal snagging while impacting legitimate fishing opportunity as little as possible. Panel members were asked to
identify the major problems with the fishery and to suggest possible solutions that would result in more opportunities for
legitimate angling. The panel identified 3 major issues: snagging with J-Plug type lures, the use of rigs with weight below the
hook to snag fish, and the use of long leaders to snag fish with a technique known as "lining". These observations mirrored
complaints that DEC has received from the general public.

Tackle restrictions that would curtail snagging with J-plug type lures and weight below the hook rigs were recommended
unanimously. As a result, the proposed regulations will require that floating lures have the hook(s) attached to the lure body by
ring or swivel such that the hook(s) are free swinging and the maximum distance between the lure body and hook point(s) is
one and one half inches. Floating lures will be restricted to one hook point on the smaller tributaries in Cayuga and Oswego
Counties from September 1 through March 31 and on the Salmon River from August 15 through October 31. Treble hooks will
be allowed on floating lures at all times on the Oswego River. The use of weight below the hook will also be prohibited under
the current proposal.

The Panel did not reach a consensus on the"long leader" issue but an overwhelming majority of the panel members
recommended that the distance between the terminal tackle (bait, lure or fly) and any added weight should be no more than 4
feet (a maximum leader length of 4 feet). The proposal will include the stipulation that the distance between the terminal tackle(bait, lure or fly) and any added weight be no more than 4 feet, and will apply to all Lake Ontario tributaries in Region 7.

Some advocates of fishing with a long length (often 8 to 10 feet) of leader between the terminal tackle and added weight, which
are often fished with small flies, light lines, and very sharp hooks suggest that fish are biting the flies and are legally and
ethically caught. This technique does not involve the use of heavy weights or constant jerking of the rod but sometimes
involves a single lifting motion at the end of a drift. An overwhelming majority of our panel, many of whom have used long leaders, suggested that the long leaders are extremely conducive to foul hooking fish and that the technique could easily be abused to illegally snag fish.

The requirements that hooks be attached to floating lures with a ring or a swivel, and that the distance between the terminal
tackle and any attached weight cannot exceed four feet have also been proposed for Great Lakes tributaries outside Region 7.
However, the requirement for a single hook point on floating lures and the prohibition of weight below the hook are not includedin proposals for those Regions.

The purpose of the August 14 meeting at the BOCES in Mexico is to provide information about the proposed regulation and to
receive public input on the proposal. <-------

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