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Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon Amazing "Inland ocean" fisheries

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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-09-2003 09:05 PM
pmflyfisher Pat,

No problem, just let me know when your headed up steelhead fishing, so I don't go to the same river you are on that day and have to compete with you using some of those fly patterns.

If you have any questions on any of those patterns shoot me a PM or email

Have to start using those feathers also, got some great ideas for their use.


PM Out
03-09-2003 07:47 PM
Pat Bahan Hal,
Yes! I should have replied sooner but I've been bad. Except for church and taking the wife to Sunday lunch I've spent all weekend fishing and/or rigging.:hehe:
I'm very impressed with some of your ideas and am looking forward to copying them. Many thanks.
03-09-2003 11:00 AM
pmflyfisher Pat,

I like the stone fly pattern and am preparing to tie some. Did you get my care package yet ?

PM Out
02-01-2003 06:02 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher
BTW, who do you think are the GLs fly fishing steelhead and salmon pioneers ?
PM Out

We owe the biologists a hats off but they were not as you asked fly fishing pioneers. Just guys trying to get rid of a problem...alewives.

I always wonder what the first guy thought we he pegged one of our silver pigs while fishing for perch or trout.

Bet he was awe struck.
02-01-2003 03:43 PM
pmflyfisher Don't forget the great michigan fishery biologists who lead the research and initial stockings of lake michigan in the 1960s : Howard Tanner, Dave Borgerson, Paul Seebach, Leo Mroszinski, etc. they managed the early michigan steelhead and salmon programs. The Little Manistee strain is now the largest stocked strain through out the great lakes. A hardy strain they are.

PM Out
02-01-2003 03:00 PM
removed_by_request I'd have to do some digging, but Michigan was one of the first GL states to plant Steelhead. They even had returns (small ones at best) during the Lake Michigan's bleak years.

These guys were not Ffishers they were after meat.
02-01-2003 10:41 AM
Just a hint, but....

What about Seth Green and the Caledonia Hatchery in NY. I think he was the first (or one of the first) to bring McCloud Rainbows east, and stocked the Genesee River, a trib of Lake Ontario. Some of 'em made their way into the lake. I'm pretty sure that was before 1880. (Just checked - he got the eggs in 1874, first stockings in the Genny in 1879.

I am also pretty sure that pacific salmon were stocked in Lake Erie (and maybe Lake Ontario?) in the 1880s and 1890s. Can't find my reference on that, though. I'm pretty sure the Cattaraugus (feeds Erie) was one of the first. (The info is on one of the web sites pertaining to the Cattaraugus).

Maybe this will be a memory jogger for you.

If we didn't have the fish, there would BE no flyfishing!!! So let's give tribute to the folks who made it happen!

PS - Caledonia hatchery is just a short drive from my home!

02-01-2003 07:37 AM
removed_by_request JK is not a pioneer he came later much later. Great caster, but not a pioneer.

I would agree on Ray (who is healing well) Ray helped developed many Great lakes flies and tatics.

Swan for sure, he got people to believe these fish would bite. Bedford also, even tho' these are not all fly guys they helped open our eyes to the resource we had.

Swan used to take guys out (big lake) put them in a belly boat and have them strip streamers for scum line feeders. I would hazard a guees that is innovative.
02-01-2003 07:29 AM

Ray Schmidt, John Kluesing, and the many locals...
02-01-2003 07:03 AM
pmflyfisher MJYP,

I will research where I saw the term "player", it will come to me just give me a little time.

FYI, the research has been completed and I am fully prepared to start the MS Trivia thread if needed.

But first there are the Wulff, Schwiebert, R.H. Brown, L. Kreh, T. Coombs, A. Flick, T. Gordon and many other famous fly fishers of trout and salmon trivia threads to work on.

BTW, who do you think are the GLs fly fishing steelhead and salmon pioneers ? Dick Swan and Dave Richey come to mind but they were not solely fly fisherman. It has to be some one who has guided, published articles or books, TV show etc...

Let me know, because no one quickly comes forth from my brain cells

PM Out
02-01-2003 06:28 AM
removed_by_request I am not saying they do not see color, but perhaps due to the refraction of light thru the water may make colors like Chart. or pink look like brown or gray.

I know they did a bunch of tests in the 80's to see how certain colors changed at different depths it was an amazing study.

Probably the instinct thing helps more than anything.

By the way MS did not coin the phrase "player".

I remember hearing it 20 years ago on one of the good ole boy bass shows. I don't think he coined anything original.
01-31-2003 11:09 PM
Trout vision

Assuming any person could know what a trout "sees", (and I do believe they can see color - or why do their colors brighten up for spawning - especially the males?), there are many other factors influencing color vision in the water. Turbidity (muddiness or clarity), time of day, moon or no moon at night, depth, etc.

Also, why do they strike purple or black eggs? Look in their stomachs - often they take sticks, grass, bottle caps, and other flotsam.

While in the service, and overseas, I had a "pack rod" and a spinning reel, with a few lures - spoons and spinners. When I ran out of lures, I used to take little P-38 c-ration can openers, bend them slightly, tie a hook to 'em, and STILL catch fish!

I think a lot of it is instinctive behavior. If something looks like food, acts like food, (and if it smells like food, even better!) and is getting away, they nail it. If it looks like an invasion of territory, they also nail it.

But with a creature with a brain the size of a small pea, we can only guess.

01-31-2003 11:02 PM
pmflyfisher Not sure where I picked up that term have to check, but believe it was before I read "Steelhead Dreams" last winter. Might have been one of MS's magazine articles.

I agree those are the fish you want to find.

Pm Out
01-31-2003 10:50 PM

Supinski's term of player has hit us all....I thought I was the only one saying it

Anyways, steelhead can see colors I believe, that is what I was told by a biologist.
01-31-2003 10:11 PM
pmflyfisher Who knows sometimes I think color does not matter much when you find a "player (aggressive) " steelhead, but most times I like to use natural colors which will take the "players" and the "neutral" ones which may be tempted when they see a natural food form come by and their memory kicks in to the conditioned response to strike a food source.

Sounds good doesn't it ? But when you see a piece of yarn catch them you wonder about the whole fly color issue.

PM Out
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