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>> Archive: Salmon & Steelhead Flies Spey flies to mixed wings, new innovations

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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-17-2002 06:55 PM
pmflyfisher Thanks, but I wonder how the Michigan DNR measures these ?

I doubt if they will bother me since I am a fly fisher it is the other types they are after usually. But one never knows.

I measured the gaps with my in precise ruler and thats what it looked like to me. Actually don't care about the hook gap it is the weight of the hook that I am after.

Will just bend then down.
04-17-2002 07:49 AM
juro BTW -

the low water partridge hooks I was using register a 33/64ths on the precision caliper I used

The TMC 7999 3/0 measures same,
the TMC 2/0 is legal.

You won't have to reserve your 2/0 for fly swaps, give them a measure yourself and see!

Plus there is nothing preventing you from bending the point in 1/64th to become legal.

will post image later...
04-17-2002 07:46 AM
juro I've heard good things about Mr.Supinski but it's not a book I'd be interested in reading if it's about comparing the two fisheries. I've had it up to the eyeballs with this comparison over the years, having talked to a huge number of anglers at flyshops, shows, online, etc.

Since you brought it up, the way I see it there is no comparison. The artificial runs in the mid-west can not compare to the native runs in the PNW, plain and simple. The inland lake striped bass fishery can't be compared to the real thing on the coast, even if the fish reach comparable size. Stocked pond trout are not native brookies in Labrador, brood salmon are not Ponoi missles, Chambers Creek fish are not Hoh River native submarine bucks with attitude. No matter how rationalized, these simple truths can not be changed by you or I. Nor would I want them to change. Perhaps some do?

One was put there by God, and the other was put there by man. One is the actual native fishery trying to hang on despite everything people do to screw it up, and the other is put in place by people for recreation and commerce.

This is not to say they are not both fun and worthy of pursuit, it is only to say that as far as what steelhead stand for to me, these occurrences are apples and oranges - not subjects for comparison, each with their own merits.

04-16-2002 10:39 PM
pmflyfisher Juro,

Probably the best book I have seen to date describing the Great lakes steelhead fishery and differences to the PNW is the new Matt Supinski Book - Steelhead Dreams. In paperback it is around $ 30 maybe a little less. Best book to date on Great lakes steelhead and atlantic salmon.

Also current Fly Fisherman has an article by Kelley Gallop on great lakes steelhead which compares between PNW some what. Both guides have fished both.

Just missed Kelley at my local Chicago fly shop last month. He has lived in Michigan most of his life, and just bought some type of fly and guide shop in Yellowstone area. Is moving now.

Major similarities are a noble fish and obsessed anglers chasing them I think, once they get into your psyche.

BTW, I checked the Michigan rules this week, new single hook max gap is 1/2 inch and doubles are 3/8 inch as I thought. Trebles not allowed on flies. Looks like we are now limited to a 1/0 hook per my measurements. T. Coombs says a Tiemco 7999 2/0 hook is .670 grams while the 1/0 is .505 grams. I had tied up a number of 2/0s for a new application this year. Now I am sunk with that concept to get the fly deeper.

Oh well will use the 2/0s for fly swaps I guess.

Maybe in steelhead heaven I will be able to use 4/0 hooks?

04-16-2002 07:24 PM
juro Hehe - that will cost you that second fly of the pair that I gave to you! Unless you're hot for dolly you'd better send it back!

On second thought, scratch that comment - thanks for renaming the real eel to the tarpon tamer!
04-16-2002 06:52 PM
sean Hey I thought this fly was called the Dolly Killer:hehe: .

04-10-2002 07:29 AM
juro It might just be me but I am starting to get a slight impression that you are constantly comparing PNW to G/L steelheading. There is no point in such a comparison. Each are what they are. No need to rationalize.

You've reinforced that they are very different fisheries with numerous posts. Frankly, I'd be more interested in discussing the similarities.

They sure are an awesome fish!

04-10-2002 06:26 AM
pmflyfisher What is the gap in inches on those 4/0's or maybe you have big pinkies?

BTW there about 10 of the 20 steelhead rivers in Michigan have dams I think, where fisherman congregate for the runs, however you will not find any FF there, they will be down stream fishing. The anglers at the dams fish bait, lures and flies on drift rigs. A FF would not last long there.

Not possible to use big flies that size in the spring fed clear waters most of these rivers except for Wisconsin which has more color to them. I wish I could. I wish I had some digital pics to send you. The new Matt Supinski book Steelhead Dreams has great pictures showing the very clear waters we face most of the year here except the few times the rivers are high due to rain. Those situations only last for a couple of days here usually.

I wish I could use big flys more, only time I do is for king salmon in fall and skammania summer runs who are very aggressive, I think they would take a snake if I could tie one.


P.S. For the record I have not fished below a dam in probably at least 18 years out here, to continue that would have mean't a substantial increase in my life insurance coverage, so I would rather fish down stream with possibly less fish, but in solitude away from the crazies, and beleive there are some here just like in the PNW.
04-09-2002 11:01 PM
juro You're kidding, right? The gaps on these traditional de-barbed single hooks from Redditch are narrower than my pinky! Well within regulations, and fished without split shots or buckshot in parachute cord and swung like a real steelhead fly; a turned loop eye with a double-turle on a Spey rod in the North Cascades.

The spirit of the gap rule is to prevent snagging. That would be just about impossible with a swung fly in spring conditions. You never see anyone snagging for spring steelhead in the PNW... I know that's a big problem in the G/L. Fishing for spring natives is a game of covering miles of water, searching with one's will and wit for the Holy Grail.

People don't stand shoulder to shoulder drifting tiny flies in the same spot over and over trying to break down a steelhead's resistance in a crowded holding pool below a hatchery like some fisheries I've seen (Lake Ontario).

There is more than one way to skin a cat, or in this case hook a steelhead. Really, we're not all smokin' crack out in the PNW, big ass flies work just fine for spring fish!
04-09-2002 10:04 PM
pmflyfisher Good fly but don't PNW anglers have hook gap size limitations ? 4/0 hook is not legal now in Michigan.

Michigan is going to 1/2 inch gap which looks like a 1/0 to me.

Doubles can only be 3/8 inch gap which is a size 2, I think.

No trebles allowed on any flies period.
04-09-2002 08:27 PM
Dear God! If that thing isn't a killer

on the Dechts. in Eastern Oregon, nothing will.

Great pattern Juro!!!

On the Rogue we have a 'special' summer run that comes in usually in October. Very different than our normal summies; they couldn't care less about purple. The 'fall guys' love it! Can I convince you to tie me up three or four!
04-09-2002 08:05 PM
Purple Nasty Fly

Hook: 4/0 Partridge Medium Wire Salmon (pick your favorite hook & size)
Thread: Black 3/0 monochord
Tail: Purple straight cut bunny, tapered tip
Body: Alternating segments tied GPO style -
> dubbed pearl/purple antron blend
> layered blue and purple marabou tufts
> black dyed mallard flank collar
Front Collar: Black mallard or purple dyed guinea fowl (ran out)

The nasty can be tied in any color combination - black, red, orange, etc.

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