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Classic Atlantic Salmon No pursuit rivals salmon rivers, flies & legacy

Thread: Where are the Atlantic Salmon Fisherman ? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-29-2001 02:15 PM
pmflyfisher French Creek,

The laws you describe are the same in Michigan the rivers where I primarily fish. As long as you float the water and do not walk past the friver's high water mark you are legal. Many of Michigan's best rivers go through national forests thank fully, which mitgates the problems. I have seen some michigan land owners put fences right down to the water's edge, these are the ones you do not want to mess with. To bad about the Montana situation although I understand the issues. Putting fences across the river though seems to be going way to far to me. What is the canoer or fisherman suppose to do when they run into this on a remote section of the river ? Stopping and walking out does not seem reasonable.

Hal
12-28-2001 09:02 PM
FrenchCreek
Quote:
Originally posted by andre
Hal,

I recall reading about certain rivers in Montana where if the land owner owns both banks they also "own" the stream bed and the water flowing over at any given moment. Anyway, I know they run fences acoss the river to prevent floating over their "land"

andre
I fish Montana very frequently. there have been several problems over the last years, most notably a stretch of the Ruby river. The issue is that many "new" land owners, many rich,"out of staters" are buying land like crazy (like Ted & his Ex Nancy) and have started restricting or disallowing access to the rivers & streams. It is a problem that is starting to creep up to Alberta & BC as well. Many "new" land owners much prefer that fisher people do not get to the rivers. The key difference in Alberta & BC is that they DO NOT OWN the river, water of river bottom, even if they own both sides of the land. So as long as we stay at or below the "high water" mark, and access by boat or by wading to their property, we are OK as long as we stay along the water's edge.
I have not heard of or seen any fences across the rivers in Montana, but I have heard many a long litany of "choice words" hurled at me.
I am all for privacy and always respect the landowners wishes. I very seldom get refused when I ask permission to access fishable water, in Montana, Alberta & BC.
12-28-2001 01:52 PM
pmflyfisher Oh yes the Spey is on the fly fishing life target list but it would have to be combined with those historical scottish golf links. Spey in the morning and night and scottish golf during the day. Wonder if my body and pocket book could handle that ? Just found a great web site for St Andrews doesn't look like the Spey is near there is it ?

Cheers,

Hal
12-28-2001 01:15 PM
Willie Gunn Hi Chaps
I tend to take fishing on the Spey for granted and forget that the name means so much to you colonials.

For information on most beats try
http://website.lineone.net/~mike_jan...n_speyside.htm
and http://www.speycaster.net

They are both very informative web sites.

French Creek
Fish the Spey in May it is the best month, dawn and dusk classic floating line I only fish the early months as I can fish the best bits cheaply. ( Who said Scottish people were tight)

Cheers

Malcolm
12-28-2001 08:43 AM
juro I have been an atlantic salmon fisherman at heart for 30 years, maybe more. As a kid in Montreal I talked my father into taking me down to the St. Lawrence river on the rumor of a salmon here or there, to no avail. Moving to the US east coast I dreamed of going to New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and read with great interest about the West Branch of the Penobscot in Maine (the last significant run of atlantics in America) before moving to Seattle, hence my own PNW experiences. Still I am an annual member of the Atlantic Salmon Federation and I am as driven to ensure the success of atlantic salmon recovery program as anyone.

I regularly visit the HQ in Concord NH to discuss the history and current status of the atlantic salmon recovery program in the once great Merrimac River, a river whose recovery is cut short by the Lawrence, Amoskeag and other dams . I have met and discussed the screening and diversion approaches being taken on the Connecticut River's salmon recovery program, an abysmal failure because no dams are being removed or effectively diverted along this mighty river.

Frankly I think part of the reason is the sad state of affairs that atlantic salmon fishing is in here in the US. Really sad. My zeal to learn more about the east coast salmon situation has been disheartening to say the least. We try to recover the runs without removing the reasons they have failed - the dams.

Moving north to Canada there is quite a celebration of AS fishing culture that is very close to it's European roots. We have some relationships with Canadian Maritimes guides and lodges that we should develop in 2002.

We are fortunate to have members like Willie Gunn who provides a direct contact and reference to the rivers where it all started. So much of what we do today has originated on the rivers of the British Isles.

Also, when we are steelheading I don't feel at all disconnected from AS fishing. These two universes are as parallel as any in our history. What was developed 400 years ago on the Spey helps us today on the Skykomish River in Washington; what is developed on Bainbridge Island across the sound from the Sky is throwing lines on the River Dee today in the 21st Century.

I enjoy tying the mixed wing classics in winter and these ages old techniques influence my modern steelhead flies. My spey flies are hardly different from the ones use on the namesake river ages ago.

I consider myself an atlantic salmon fisherman who has realized a lifelong desire to practice this passion on the availability of the pacific northwest species. In the process I have become a pacific northwest salmon / steelhead fisherman with a desire to fish the Spey someday, to visit the mecca as they say. And on the way I want to hit the Gaspe' and other Canadian maritime streams, to get myself ready for the ultimate AS experiences across the pond.

12-28-2001 08:38 AM
pmflyfisher Well looks like there are some atlantic salmon fisherman or at least part time or those who want to be. Steelhead fly fishing is similar and many atlantic salmon flies can be used for steelhead and vice sa versa. I have been tying some atlantic salmon hair wings and speys this last week fishing which are starting to look pretty good.

[/COLOR] Perhaps we should consider an atlantic salmon fly swap ?

Those that are interested please respond to the new thread I started on this ?

I would love to see other custom or traditional patterns tied by forumn members. If I any one wants to do classic salmon patterns that is up to them but I am not to that level yet. Maybe another ten years.

Keep it to ten or so people max since I don't think I have the patience to do more than ten of them. Besides I have to start on my Michigan steelhead ties for the spring trip in March of course to the PM. Still looking for that 15 pounder + and March is when the big boys can be had, also they will have you very quickly, as has been the case in the past.
12-28-2001 02:12 AM
inland PM Flyfisher,

I would hardly be called a salmon fisherman, I don't think 10 days a year would qualify. Due to geographic location I am PMW steelheader first and foremost, apprentice salmon fishermen second. In spite of this, salmon fishing is a real treat, something I have permanently added to the yearly schedule!

Willie Gunn

I am very interested in making time to fish for springers on the Spey. A few years back I was on vacation during June and was able to fish for a few days on the Tay. Now I want to try for the best of the best!

Thanks,

William
12-27-2001 10:41 PM
juro As I recall in Norway, Iceland, and other northern atlantic salmon regions they use long dory-like boats to work salmon rivers. This tradition is also common on North American rivers like the Miramichi, etc. The drift boat is as much a part of the pacific northwest's river culture as the anglers that fish them, few concepts are in perfect harmony like a glacial river and pulling oars; perhaps the flats boat and the Florida Keys.
12-27-2001 04:48 PM
pmflyfisher Malcolm,

Good points, plus the British Isles have more experience in torture techniques then us americans do. I would not want to try and float one of those european rivers.

Cheers,

Hal
12-27-2001 04:27 PM
Willie Gunn Hi Chaps
The thought of drifting down the Spey or Tay fishing as you go would make the film Deliverance seem like a Sunday School Picnic.:hehe:

Both systems seem to have there good and bad points I think that in our little country with our high population free fishing for all just would not work.

Malcolm
12-27-2001 09:06 AM
pmflyfisher Yes, Fred's banking and real estate knowledge is paying off. That is the way I understand it perhaps other states here in the US have other laws. But in general in the US if you are floating on the water you are legal. They cannot legally remove you from a navigable waterway. However you must physically launch from a public access point and then float into the river sections whose land is privately owned. The only exceptions are some small streams and lakes which are totally enclosed within private property and are not navigable or do not have a public entry point to launch from.

Now thinking about it I do not ever remember seeing drift boats or canoes used for fly fishing on rivers in Europe or UK, Scotland etc.. This must be the reason private ownership of the land and water which flows through it.

Note there are some prime fly fishing rivers in the US in which I think float fishing canoes, rafts, yaks, drift boats, are banned such as the Beaverkill, Willowemuc in the Catskill region of NY state where I started fly fishing. I wish they would implement this on my beloved Pere Marquette (PM). The drift boats started in the mid 1980s and sections of the river which required a long walk in now are accessible by the drift boats. There were days I would see 0 or 1 other fisherman. Not any more due to the drift boats and canoes. River is to small for them. They really should be banned from this river and other smaller ones. But the guides and local lodges would be up in arms. for sure.

As Saltron indicates in some western rivers the land owners run fences right across the river to prevent anglers floating through when they own both sides of the river and and the river bed. Not very friendly now is that. Probably have electronic detection systems also and then send the cowboys out after you. Could be ugly experience. Will let them have those waters. To many free american rivers to fish in one life time.

12-26-2001 07:58 PM
fredaevans
Navigable vs. non-Nav. water.

Doc,
What Hal's referring to is Nav. vs. Non-nav. water. If a river is classified as a navigable river the adjacent landowner owns the property to the high water mark. The State or Fed's own the 'ground' under the stream/river. Once you've gained access to 'ground' below the high water mark you're on public property.

On non-nav. waters, the land owner owns the property to the "thread" (center line) of the stream. Here you (general public) can fish as long as you're in a boat ie: not standing/trespassing on his land 'under' the water.
:eyecrazy: And so go our Laws.

Fred
12-26-2001 06:30 PM
pmflyfisher Sounds like some of the Michigan river towns before they banned salmon snagging 3 years ago. The whole town's economy was based on selling services to the annual salmon snagging onslaught. That is why I stopped fishing during the fall salmon runs due to the volume and character of the snaggers. Did NY ban snagging yet, maybe Pulaski is changing for the better ?
Note although it was banned in Michigan the locals and some out of staters still think they have a right to do it. Weighted treble hooks with a few chicken feathers on it is not my idea of fly fishing, although some snaggers thought this was OK in a fly fishing only section. Many combat fishing situations were created due to the snagging. One local bragged to me about going down river to find a fresh pool of salmon and throwing dynamite in to stun and harvest them. He was serious. I let him have the pool I was fishing of course and moved on.
12-26-2001 05:49 PM
striblue Hal, Those are good points about the Salmon River.. My last trip there a couple years ago reveal big crowds. What I remember most was when I went into Pulaski one afternoon and everyone, and I mean everyone, was dressed in their waders. Guys getting haircuts in Barber chairs, people leaving the super market with bags in their arms.. people walking out of banks, drug store, diners, you name it.. I thought I was in another country. The Banks of the river that went though town was packet as was the bridges. I kept my waders on for fear that if I took them off.. I might hear.."look... an outsider... seize him".
12-26-2001 05:42 PM
andre Hal,

I recall reading about certain rivers in Montana where if the land owner owns both banks they also "own" the stream bed and the water flowing over at any given moment. Anyway, I know they run fences acoss the river to prevent floating over their "land"

andre
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