Fly Fishing Forum - Reply to Topic
Propwash A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour... good times!

Thread: foolish impulse buy??? Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options
Rate Thread
If you like, you can add a score for this thread.

Topic Review (Newest First)
04-21-2006 08:47 PM
Eddie Jim, right you are. I meant to say 2 stroke. Fuel injected, computer brained two stroke. Like FITCH, but without the fires.
04-21-2006 05:38 PM
pescaphile Basides being smaller and lighter, another advantage to a 2-cycle kicker is that they have no crankcase oil. With a 4-cycle engine, you must keep it vertical or lay it down in a certain position to avoid engine oil entering the cylinder where it can cause excessive carbon buildup and fouled plugs.

This isn't too much of a problem on a kicker that spend most of its time mounted on a boat, but it can be a source of problems for one that is transported a lot.

I agree with the others about the gaskets and seals.
04-21-2006 01:11 PM
JimW OC, I did not know that about the carbs on that kicker, good info. I hope the merc serves you well, sounds like a great deal.

Eddie, I'm not entirely familiar with the E-tec cylinder/valve cycle but I do think it's classified as a 2 stroke albeit a smart one. The Ficht had problems but I do think they were isolated to 1 year in the higher HP engines. The fact that they caught fire is of course tough to live down, rightfully so.

FWIW - I've heard from someone taking the marine engine tech course that there is a good chance we'll see next generation 2 strokes bump out the current 4 strokes in not so many years. Technology vs. Marketing still has to play out so I'll take a wait and see approach. Luckily I'm not in the position to ponder a purchase. I just hope my current motor turns over if I ever get the cover off.
04-21-2006 12:45 PM
Eddie
I think

The main reason the factories are going four stroke is ideology. I think that 2 stroke (in the minds of the Japanese) is associated with leaf blowers and scooters in China. This is why they ditched 2 stroke in MotoGP. The technology is not relevent to their manufacturing ideology (even if the performance is better).
eTec IS 2 stroke, and injected 2 stroke can be very fuel efficient, clean, powerful, light, and quiet. Getting there was not easy. Look at the FITCH disaster. The first HDPI's had problems, and in the motorcycle world, Bimota basicly went bankrupt trying to bring a 2 stroke street bike to market. I think that the Japanese mfg's looked at that and said, "no thanks, we can make 4 stroke out boards (marinized car engines) that will work, be cheap to develop, and will easily meet the new emisions standards. Evenrude/Johnson went out of b2 strokesusiness. Now the challenge will be to make 4 strokes as light and powerfull as 2's. There getting close.
A two stroke lawn mower creates more hydrocarbons in an hour than a car driving from SanFrancisco to LA.
I'll bet that engine is fine. My mercedeeeese wagon was an '89 with 42,000 miles on it. Got it two years ago and have put 30,000 trouble free miles on it (well except for the $500 repair to the HVAC controls )
04-21-2006 12:43 PM
OC Thanks for the link, Jim. Going to put that on my sons favorites as he sure asks a lot of questions.

One other thing I found out about the Mercury line of small outboards is that the 6 hp, 8 hp and the 9.9 hp are the same engine. The only difference is the carburetor and that can be changed to make the engine more powerful. Merc won't say that but I guess my fellow cruisers are doing it around the world. I'll stay where I'm at as our Avon hard bottom has a limit at 8 HP. But if someone had an older kicker for a trolling motor like a 6 hp it might be something to look into. I bet ya can get a rebuilt carb for a merc pretty cheap.

To all,
Thanks for all the advice.
04-21-2006 12:25 PM
juro What Sean said. I post informative links all the time.

I always thought the spirit of the policy, and we ain't got many, was pretty clear.
04-21-2006 12:03 PM
Smcdermott Jim,

I don't see a problem with that link. Kind of like posting a link to NOAA or Tide charts. Yes there are a few banners but none that I would consider to be in competition with the sponsors here or the site itself. I assume Juro will chime in if he feels differently.

Sean
04-21-2006 11:51 AM
JimW 2 stroke / 2 cycle - different names for the same thing.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/two-stroke2.htm
This link should help you out.
I would hope that for the benefit of all in understanding the term that we don't edit the link but of course don't let me stand in the way of ignorance.

A 4 stroke does not expel the exhaust out the side of the cylinder it relies on push rods that articulate with a lobed camshaft, this opens and closes the exhaust and intake ports, thus my statement of less to go wrong on a 2 stroke.
04-21-2006 11:44 AM
Moonlight OC I don't think you will have any trouble with seals or anything else buying the out of date OB, sounds like a great value. I have done the same several times in the past and never got burned by saving money.
04-21-2006 10:26 AM
OC I'm wondering if my terminology is wrong here and I should have used 2 stroke instead of 2 cycle. If I have can some one tell me the difference.
04-21-2006 10:25 AM
JimW I wouldn't be suprised if the true 2-strokes are history. The ones like mine that just blast 1/2 burnt fuel into the water are on their way out. I really don't think the E-tec is going to be banned for sale in the US since they are said to run quieter and burn less fuel than the current 4 stokes in the over 200hp class. I think that takes into account the extra weight of the 4 stokes and there may be some creative math involved but I'd be willing to belive they are just as good as the current 4's - less to go wrong too.

After only looking into it briefly (buddy boat shopping) if I had the cash to buy a new engine it would be an E-Tec.

Back to the question at hand. My recommendation would be to pull the plug and put a couple of drops of 2stroke oil in the cylinder - slowly pull the cord with the plug out., replace the plug.
Put some new gas oil mix in a fuel tank with fuel conditioner - Good idea to use the stabil in all your gas mix where you may not use up the fuel in 2 months, gas can go bad quicker than you think and that can cause lots of problems.

If it makes you feel any better my buddy has a little merc 9.9 I think, runs like a champ and was basically hanging off the back of a 23'er used a couple times a year and never winterized. He now runs it on a small lake boat, starts on the 2nd pulll every time.

Obviously get some water running through the muffs or drop the lower unit in the water before letting 'er rip.
04-21-2006 09:42 AM
Smcdermott
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dble Haul
Why is the market phasing out the 2 cycle engines? Not enough fuel efficiency, or just plain obsolete in comparison to the 4 cycle engines?
I am going to need some proof on that one. I really doubt Bombardier would have invested so much in the Etech if they can't sell them here. The new two strokes need to meet emissions standards that only some do so that may be what OC is referring to?

My guess is that the factory would not have shipped the motor with any fuels in it. My reasoning here is that I used to work in a motorcycle shop and they always were shipped dry in crates. I would have concerns with dry rot on the seals and gaskets. I am not a mechanic but a good friend who is always told me to steer away from the used car with 8000 miles on it that sat in some old ladies garage for just that reason.

Sean
04-21-2006 09:37 AM
OC I think it is because of the pollution factor. 2 cycles pollute more than 4 cycles. I agree with that and would have bought a 4 cycle but as we are going out of the country for 4 years or so I wanted the 2 cycle becaue it is easier to work on and the parts are many. It is so easy to get parts anywhere in the world for a 2cycle engine. The 4 cycle has not caught on in places like the South Pacific or Indian Ocean where fishermen can not afford the more expensive 4 cycles. To the best of my knowledge that is the reason and I wonder if they are making the ugly jet ski industry go to 4 cycle engines too.
04-21-2006 09:25 AM
Dble Haul Why is the market phasing out the 2 cycle engines? Not enough fuel efficiency, or just plain obsolete in comparison to the 4 cycle engines?
04-21-2006 08:54 AM
OC
foolish impulse buy???

The other day on the way home from work I dropped into West Marine to pick up a few minor things like floating key chains. I asked if they had any 2 cycle 8 hp Merc outboards left. As most of you know there will be no new 2 cycle outboards made for the U.S. market anymore, only 4 cycle. The guy behind the counter took a look at the inventory computer and told me he had just one left in the North West and it was down in his basement. I asked him how much and he gave me a price 700 dollars less than normal price. Asked him why so low and he said it was a 2003 model but never out of the box. Sure enough it had never been out of the box so I bought it, so much for floating key chains.

My question is for you folks that deal with outboards a lot. Do you think that the gaskets and seals will still be ok after sitting in the box for 3 to 4 years? I did get a full warranty but that means nothing if i am having problems and I got to mess with bringing back to the dealer all the time. Also I have not checked yet to see if it had any fuel in its system from a factory startup. It may have evaporated by now, should I be worried that there might be some problems from old fuel in a new outboard?
Thanks
OC

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:48 PM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)