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Classic Atlantic Salmon No pursuit rivals salmon rivers, flies & legacy

Thread: Tyne Salmon Deaths 2005 Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-08-2005 07:06 PM
txraddoc OK here goes an unpopular view. GLOBAL WARMINGT DID NOT CAUSE THE HURRICAINE!! There were worse ones in the 1930-50's. Political hacks want uniformed pepole to further communist/socialist agenda by trying to balme everything on America/Bush. The water in the gulf was not "warmer than normal". Who knows what it was 200 years ago, let alone 2,000 or 2 million. The earth's temps were much warmer in the 1500's than today, and of course we have had many ice ages and relative warm cycles. All of this was not do to George Bush, the USA or "global warming" ( global warming meaning it is from "bad" so called greenhouse gases from evil USA).

Fish kills are from poor management of the rivers by local industry. I know, my home waters are the former USA Maine salmon rivers of the narraguagus, penobscot, and machias rivers. These formaer great rivers have declined from a combination of about 10 factors, 9 of them are local ( one is high seas netting).

Anyway, back to fishing.

Tight Lines,

Jim Y
09-08-2005 04:00 PM
Gary W I cycle to and from work on a cycle path that runs along the river Kelvin, that flows into and through the west end of Glasgow and into the river Clyde. It has seen improved runs of Salmon and Sea Trout, as bankside industry has slowed. It is still very much an urban river with various seepages from landfill sites and other nasties getting into the water.
Twice this year I have seen fish kills; once early on with a lot of juvenile fish and brown trout dead, and once this week with a good number of Salmon dead along eight miles of the river.
Both of these fish kills have followed unseasonably hot weather. However, other smaller streams within a 30 mile radius have not suffered the same fate. It must be the impact of hot weather reducing the oxygen content, where the oxygen is already low due to poor water quality.
SEPA(Scottish Environmental Protection Agency) were informed on both counts. I will try to follow their results to a conclusion.
I just hope it was a natural occurence and the river isn't being poisoned by poachers. It would be a shame to see ignorance and greed hinder a good recovery of an urban river.
09-08-2005 06:49 AM
Last summer and fall in Southeast Alaska.....

there was a similar event to what Greg described as happened on Kodiak Island. Each Sept for the last 5 years my brother- in- law from Salt Lake City, myself and a couple other guys fish on Prince of Wales Island targeting the fabulous Coho return. We even run into some of the same groups each year from Montana and chat/compete with them. Anyway the island averages 12 feet of yearly rainfall with 20-25 days of any given month seeing some amount of precip. So last year they had a "bluebird summer" which was unusual in itself but was both welcomed and dreaded by the locals and lodgeowners. Great for business and tourists bringing $$$ in but bad for the fish that would be migrating into the freshwater in the fall. Consequently, the King Salmon season was great during the summer but the lack of rainfall lowered the rivers, streams and cricks to a trickle. The Coho stayed in the salt MUCH longer and "ripened" for spawning while awaiting the rain. The commercial fisheries had a heyday netting up the loitering schools and our trip was tough fishing. Many of the Silvers we caught last fall were blush or dark and I personally caught several with sealice with one inch tails that were as red as a watermelon. Beautiful fishing weather but we needed the rain. This fall things are back to "normal". It won't take too many bluebird summers to make a noted difference in the climate and fisheries in the temperate rainforest of Soggy Southeast Alaska.
09-07-2005 08:26 PM
Global Warming

It would interesting to know the impact global warming is having on these fish kills. High water temperature seems to be a common factor in the instances cited. I don't claim to be an expert either, just someone who reads enough to be dangerous, but hopefully in a positive way. Are the players involved in these scenarios looking at the temperature changes these salar have encountered over the recent years, and not just in the rivers but in their overall environments as well?

Though not directly related, the recent Katrina hurricane disaster was said to have occurred, at least in part, because the storm had passed over unusally warm water before devastating the gulf coast. The question "Should we rebuild New Orleans?" keeps coming up as if no one thinks its possible there will be a repeat of this disaster in the future. I have yet to read of anyone pointing out that as long as the waters of the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico are warmer than usual, the chances of a devastating repeat hurricane are greater than in earlier times when ocean temperatures were cooler.

Maybe I digress here, but of all the environmental insults salar needs to hurdle, global warming may be one of the most serious. And what makes this problem insidious is that it is difficult to pin down and get our leaders to take action. Not enough attention is being paid to global warming.
09-07-2005 06:30 PM
GregD Hi,

I have witnessed a similar event up in Alaska. We flew up to a river system on Kodiak Island that was experiencing drought conditions for the last 2 months, very low water running over dark rocks. The early morning salmon would make it the mile and a half to the upper lakes. Later in the day as the sun rose and the water temperatures did the same the fish all ran out of oxygen and would loss conciousness. A line of the bigest seagulls I had seen around waited anxiously to peck out the eyeballs then start on the rest of the fish if they could catch them. Fish piled up at the mouth like trash until they fisheries people closed the weir to prevent the fish from coming upsteam. Easy pickins for the birds and bears, though they were not keeping up with the piles.

Once the rains came and water levels rose the fisheries people opened up the weir for the fish to run upsteam again. Sad sight to see for sure, mother nature can be cruel.

09-07-2005 08:55 AM
G Ritchie There was a similar fish kill on the Aberdeenshire Dee during the late summer of 2003. The main cause was the lack of oxygen due to high water temperatures and a large number of fish confined to one pool in the upper tidal reaches due to extreme low water levels.
09-07-2005 07:46 AM
Charlie The Cascapedia river on the Gaspe had a fish kill this year due to low warm water. I heard of some other fish kills but have no details.

09-07-2005 03:22 AM

The Environment Agency (EA) and MAFF have been investigating for the last 10 years or so and have come to the conclusion that this is a pathegon naturally caused/brought on by the stress of the fish trying to cope with the lack of disolved oxygen in the estuary.
The Tyne has a very long tidal estuary, is heavily industrialised and has nasties in the silts from the shipbuilding days. The new sewage interceptor network has rejuvenated the quality of the estuary but in hot dry summers we always have a problem, especially with Salmo salar
We have a large reservoir at the head of the system and it took us 5 years to persuade the EA to release water, to encourage fish out of the estuary, into the system and hopefully safety. The EA had always maintained it was not natural conditions and that the fish would not move on this water, we urged them to try it, what had they got to lose, we had fish to lose!! The result was, of coarse, that the fish did run on the release and most survived because of it.
The EA still appear reluctant to sanction a release until the fish are dying on mass, its true they have other obligations to other water users other than we anglers, but dead fish is guaranteed to get our blood up!!
Hence my original question, have fish been dying elsewhere during this hot dry summer?

09-06-2005 01:21 PM
Charlie Mike

The symptoms you have put forth sound like Infectious Salmon Anemia or ISA Disease. This is a disease mostly associated with hatchery raised Atlantic salmon and is fatal. From what I have read, it can show up in wild fish if they are exposed to farm raised fish that have the disease. Do you have any Aquiculture going on near the mouth of this river? Keep in mind this is all speculation by an untrained armature who reads entirely too much. Juro makes a point; you should try to find out if a biologist has done any research on the problem.

09-06-2005 09:35 AM
juro This is a serious concern... have there been any studies by biologists in the area?
09-06-2005 08:11 AM
Tyne Salmon Deaths 2005

With the low water and high temperatures we are once again experiencing the sad and distressing sight of extensive deaths of Salmo Salar on Englands Premier Salmon Fishery, the Tyne .(Environment Agency claim)
Most of the deaths have occurred in the estuary, as previous death years, as expected, however this year an increasing number are dying up to 20 miles above the tide.
Symptoms are same ie red sores on the belly, internal bleeding and live fish throwing themselves out of the river prior to death!!
My question, through these pages, is to ask if any similar occurrances have been experienced elsewhere in the Salmo Salar domain, worldwide, during 2005, or is it just a Tyne problem.



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