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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-20-2005 01:20 PM
fcch Salmo52,

Very well stated. I apologize if I came across as "anti- Catch'n keep".

IMHO, as long as you are legally having fun, that's what we go out there for right.

I agree that the "Table Saumon" should look into tags and yearly quotas, ... we'll wait and see what comes of the document which was sent tothe minister. (and we WON'T speculate on it here )

I love salmon fishing, ... for many different reasons. I'll put back most of the salmon I connect to. I also LOVE seeing another angler fulfill their reason for being there too.

If they want and succeed in getting 2 grisle, heck I'll help 'em bag and tag. A happy ff is a return ff.
01-17-2005 10:10 AM
OC Very well said Salmo 52,

Be it Atlantic Salmon or wild Steelhead in the Pacific Northwest we all must make individual decisions on release or to keep a fish once in a great while. Out in the PNW amoung fly fishermen it is almost entirely C&R. We are looked at as kooks by some and fish tormentors by others. I must say it has become a religion of release. But one thing I do know is that most of us would very much love from time to time keep a wild fish when it is allowed. There would be nothing more religious than a wild fish on the Easter table. Your thoughts and feelings on keeping such a fish ring true in most of us. I have never kept a wild Steelhead in 24 years of fishing for them but hope somewhere in the future our river world we live in will be healthy enough to do so, just once would all I ask.

Your world of Atlantic Salmon fishing differs some from that of wild Steelhead fishing in that most of it is done with a fly rod and over here on Americas west coast more is done with conventional gear. Our seasons have been cut way back on most rivers when wild fish start to show up. Fly fishermen and a few gear fishermen push hard for a longer C&R season. I was once for it but realize it should not happen because of catch mortallity. If it were only a selective fishery such as flies and lures with barbless hooks it could be done without much damage because we hook so few fish in winter.
But on many of our rivers there can be on any given day 15 to 20 jet boats and that many drift boats fishing terminal gear. Many of these boats have talented guides or fishermen in them and to hook between 5 and 10 or more fish in a day happens more often than we like to think. This does not work with C&R as mortality even at 5% in too high. If we fished in the Atlantic Salmon tradition we could have our extended C&R season but in the USA it will not happen because it would be discrimination against those that fish with terminal gear.

Keep up all the hard work on C&R around the world on Atlantic Salmon fishing. If there is one fish that it will have a great sucsess rate it is the Atlantic Salmon because you have for many years set the most difficult of standards in fishing for the king of fishes.
01-17-2005 09:40 AM
billg SALMO 52:

C&R is a personal choice and every angler has a right to make that choice. Retention of large salmon in Quebec is permissible (on an individual river and seasonal basis). I do not believe that there will be mandatory release of all large salmon province wide (as is the case in New Brunswick) for a long time, if ever.

You are right that many factors are responsible for putting pressure on populations of wild atlantic salmon. In Gaspe there is a large clear cutting operation between the York and St. Jean rivers that will definately take a toll on both rivers. My understanding is that the new "wisdom" is that clear-cutting is best for the environment and rivers. The "silly notion" of selective cutting is no good anymore. This is the "wisdom" of biologists in Natural Resources who undoubtedly receive pressue from the logging industry.

Then, of course, there are seals, striped bass, changing ocean conditions,, etc. We can try to influence industry and government but that often proves to be a long and uphill battle. We can educate fellow anglers on the positive aspects of C&R but at the end of the day it is an individual choice. At the end of the day, it is we as individual anglers who can directly have an impact.

This impact on an individual basis is not great in and of itself. Whether one retains a single salmon or seven is in itself not critical. However, if all of my clients, for example, killed their salmon last year there would have been over 500 less salmon on the spawning beds last fall. That would be irresponsible in this day and age for a commerical business to have such a large impact. That was the premise of my post; that those who are involved as outfitters or guides or any commercial expolitation on the rivers should make it a policy to return all large salmon back to the rivers.

There are some commercial enterprises that do not necessarily share this view (yes, they, too, have a choice). I am not trying to single any such business out, nor will I. But, I do believe that all of us who do operate commercial enterprises should practice C&R for large salmon. We can and should decide who we accept as clients.

As to individual anglers like yourself the choice is yours. In our case we might disagree on full C&R but we can do so respectfully!

Bill Greiner
Malbaie River Outfitters
01-16-2005 12:56 PM
Some thoughts about C&R and C&K :


First, I must confess I keep salmon on occasions and release on others. I always try not to see it as a religion but rather analyze the problem as a whole.

What is the impact of releasing a fish if as an individual, I subscribe to a political party or elect politicians who will vote laws dammageable to the environment and subsidize lumber companies who practice clearcutting resulting in erosion, siltation and destruction of the salmon habitat etc.

It may not be easy to acknowledge but we all live in a universe of predation; salmon has to deal with mergansers, otters, man etc. and we, as human must do with the mega-corporations of this world I guess.

The practice of C&R is a very noble cause and has to be promoted, it's a fact that a released fish will probably spawn and will contribute to the continuity of our sport. All the regions who have seen their fish population diminish to the point where it was almost critical have developped C&R practices.

To be a 100% honest in practicing C&R, it's my firm belief that one would have to use CS2003 Hooks (touch & go) created by John Betts and commercialized by Partridge of Redditch, these hooks have an eye at both extremities and allow the fish to free himself without having to suffer Ó ten minutes fight with all the inconvenients of it (for the fish).

Man is a creature of ambigu´ty, while we're fighting a fish and having the best time of our life, we forget or erase of our mind, the fact that the poor creature is not having as much fun as we have on the bank, in reality, the fish is stressed to the point where comes a time he has to surrender, accept his own death, and finally, comply to his torturer.

Am I a better man because I return the fish to his home waters ? Probably not, am I a better sportman ? Maybe, but who can judge ?

If I decide to keep the salmon, there is one thing you can be certain, deep inside, I will not feel so happy, but this dead fish I will eat every ounce I can, I'll open a good bottle of wine and in good company, will celebrate the fight he gave me. One of the reason I kill fish on occasion is because it's a wild creature and you just can't buy wild creatures at the grocery. Farmed salmon are almost lethal when you consider all the antibiotics and other medicinal substances they have to ingurgitate before they arrive on your table.

I will not elaborate on the way Quebec administer its salmon ressource but IMHO, Quebec laws are too permissive in allowing to kill 7 salmon. However, we have to keep in mind that only a low percentage of fishermen will capture the allowed limit ( 2%) if I refer to a FQSA poll. The work in progress at the "table saumon" will probably lower the actual limit and it will be a very positive move.

Sometimes, you will see me with blood on my hands on the river bank, do not panic, it won't be human blood. I just hope you will not consider me as an extraterrestrial but only a human being with all the ambiguities and contradictions it implies.
01-15-2005 06:01 PM
billg Chris:

There has been increased empshasis on C&R on many of the Gaspe rivers over the past couple of years and I believe that it is much easier to make headway now than a few years ago.

The zec Gaspe took proactive measures 2 years ago which increased the C&R seasons on 2 of its rivers and substantially reduced the numbers of salmon being killed since then.

Similarly, the Grande River, which was C&R in 2004 by government mandate had the possibility of being opened in 2005 for killing big salmon. Positive discussions by myself and one other individual convinced that zec to VOLUNTARILY be C&R for 2005.

Further, I hear that there will be a new proposal with widespread appeal and support to alter the tag system in Quebec from what it is now.

It takes time and I, for one, have learned the importance of patience and diplomacy!

In the meantime, it is important to educate people 1 at a time about the enjoyment of fishing for future generations (it is in our hands) as well as the economic value of a salmon which is released back to the river.

Last year I commited that we would not permit clients to kill large salmon and non were killed in 122 of fishing. I know that Dave and Glen feel exactly as I do. I would encourage all outfitters and guides to adopt the same committment to the resource.

Bill Greiner
Malbaie River Outfitters

Bill Greiner
Malbaie River Outfitters
01-14-2005 11:57 AM
fcch Willie,

I'm originally from BC, so C&R was "in my blood" from the start. Once i moved to Quebec, boy ... what an eye opener.

In the #18 zone where I fish for brook trout, the limit is 20 per day. Further, the interpretation of the law as to daily versus possession limits were not clear. Lots of anglers were taking 20 trout per day for EVERY day fished. On a long weekend, that means a group of 4 were taking home nearly 240 trout.

C&R of adult salmon has been obligatory on the a few salmon rivers in the Saguenay for 2 years now. The 205 regs just came out (preliminary) and we're still C&R for the Ste-Marguerite. I assume that the other 3 rivers in the region will be too. For sea run brookies, we put in daily limts of 5 with only one over 15 inches.

Even some of the wardens held that C&R was lethal at all times. Recently, we caught spawners (sea run brook trout) on barbless hooks, stored them in PVC tubes, transfered them to holding pens, then transplanted them to another irver in the region (Ste-Marg to Mars Rv). As far as we could tell, NO mortality.

Gave the "doubters" some food for thought.
01-14-2005 11:51 AM

It is fair to say that a combination of C&R, habitat improvment, hatcheries and buyouts of inshore nets provide excellent safeguard to the future of our salmon stocks. However, in my opinion not enough praise (in general)is given to the successful efforts of the NASF buying out offshore salmon nets(especially from some National fishing magazines).

Without their contribution, I am sure that efforts to save International salmon stocks would be a complete up hill struggle.
01-14-2005 11:32 AM
Willie Gunn Christopher,
Unfortunately there are still to many who need one for the pot, even if it the only one they catch all week. Things are improving, the Spey returned almost 70% of the fish caught last year, but it required the Spey board to make recommendations. Rivers with no recomendations still return only a small percentage.
01-14-2005 10:58 AM
fcch Willie,

Funny, having not fished often in your home waters, I just assumed that C&R was at least as widespread as in North America.

Acceptance here in Quebec is slowly coming along as well. Used to be, many felt that a released fish was condemmed to die anyway.
01-14-2005 05:02 AM
Let's Hope

Aye, it is a good start. Want to see it become a trend.
01-14-2005 03:30 AM
Willie Gunn I hope in this case that one swallow does make a summer. There is still a lot of work to do and in Scotland we were just starting to win the C&R arguement which will be more difficult if the runs of fish increase.
01-13-2005 06:04 PM
Atlantic Salmon Rebound??

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