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Lines, Loops and Leaders Line / Leader Recipes, Loops, Splices, etc.

Thread: How to load your fly line on the reel Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-16-2001 11:15 PM
Eddie KTP...sigh...
08-16-2001 10:37 AM
DFix
Quote:
Eddie (08-16-2001 10:29 a.m.):
I hope that you recieved the outfit as a gift, otherwise I would be a little disapointed that a flyshop would let a novice walk out of the shop with out offering to do the rigging. I think it could be a good idea to go back and ask them to show you how to do it. Nothing like personal instruction. If they are not capable(ie. not a flyshop) go to the best one close by and make friends. Important Tip: When seeking the best customer service (like help with rigging and advice) pick a time when the shop folks aren't too busy.


This isn't a bad spot for help either, Eddie
I agree with your commewnt regarding the shop performing for the customer, UNLESS it's KTP - I had spools wound while I shopped and even after EXPLICIT instructions as to the "hand" and the depth of backing on the spool, the Gomer doing it got it ass backwards and way unbalanced, so it met one side of the spool where requested and not the other. Which wouldn't have been so bad until I had to strip the damn things and re-wind them at home after throwing my hands up in the air when I looked at them and walked away to pay for them with this moron wondering why - even after my pointing out what was wrong. I wasn't happy and probably should have gone with the empties in the first place. Rant over.

For the neophyte, a shop should bend over backwards to accommodate you and have you walking out just short of catching a fish. If you desire to do these kinds of things yourself, there are plenty of combined years experience here to guide and assist you. Hope you have a good rest of the season.

p.s. - Just in case you bought this as a kit from someplace like Wallyworld, you shouldn't expect the abovementioned service unless the person working the sporting goods counter is overly helpful.
08-16-2001 09:29 AM
Eddie I hope that you recieved the outfit as a gift, otherwise I would be a little disapointed that a flyshop would let a novice walk out of the shop with out offering to do the rigging. I think it could be a good idea to go back and ask them to show you how to do it. Nothing like personal instruction. If they are not capable(ie. not a flyshop) go to the best one close by and make friends. Important Tip: When seeking the best customer service (like help with rigging and advice) pick a time when the shop folks aren't too busy.
This isn't a bad spot for help either, Eddie
08-15-2001 01:39 PM
TinMan Guys, thanks for the incredible amount of information on this, going to have to digest it tonite.

One quick one: when going for bonito, I picked up one of those Gary's Flies pretied knotted flouro deals (10ft I think). Do you just tie the fly onto the end of that or do you add additional tippet? Seems like 10feet is pretty long already so I assumed that last piece is tippet.
08-15-2001 11:17 AM
erck
60/20/20 designs & more

Good points Juro...

Leader design and tying is an art itself...

Look at some of the designs and uses in the free tool called LeaderCalc from: http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/download.html

If you dont have Excel then use PDF's:
http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/qwikcalc/index.php
08-15-2001 10:12 AM
juro In general terms, the butt is the 'heavy mono' that transitions the diameter and energy of the fly line into the leader, through the mid section referred to as the taper, then into the tippet.

The size of the butt depends on what's on either end... the fly line style and the tippet/fly. Generally, the bigger the fly line, the higher the grains and energy coming down the shock wave. Diameter is also a concern, they say if you step down too radically in diameter is affects the loop's energy transfer. Makes sense.

Lines come with a 1 foot straight extension on the fly end past the front taper. Many cut this off or shorten it for sinking lines to reduce the belly when sinking a fly. For int/floating lines if it doesn't bother you, just leave it I guess. If you did chop the tag end you could add a foot of leader to the usual length for additional stealth(?)

Anyway, the point is you want the forward end of the line to be graduating down in diameter and grains to roll the loop over at the end of the cast. Too radical of a step downward and the energy won't transfer well, and not enough will not provide a graceful landing for the fly.

Specific fisheries have different criteria. Saltwater coastal guys are not very concerned with finesse, more with heavy flies and strength for big fish. I've been known to fish a three part leader - 40# butt, 30# taper, 20# tippet (if you can call it that) for very short sinking head leaders when I need to get a big fly deep quickly. If I split the taper into two parts I end up with a 15# tippet but the most common leader I tie is the 5 part tapering down to 15# (40/30/25/20/15) at 60%/20%/20% ratios.

When Spey casting the leader design plays a big part, you want the leader to act like a true extension of the 'contrived roll cast' that Spey casting is. You get used to anchoring the fly a certain way and the wrong leader configuration can really mess you up sometimes. I usually tie a 6 part leader for Spey casting, 2 part 60/40% butt, 3 part taper, and tippet. Essentially a very long trout taper in bigger diameters. I usually start with a 30# butt section and taper down to 8# or 10#.

Trout require a lot of finesse as you know and leaders are a critical part of dry fly presentations. I usually just buy trout leaders but have tied my own. One nice thing is to know exactly what I need to replace if anything goes wrong when I tie them myself. With knotless I never know how much to replace, etc. The butt diameters are significantly lower than the above two to match the lighter lines and transition to the tippet over the length of the leader.

I am sure someone who knows more about leaders than I will help you more. I am a meat and potatoes kind of leader tyer... A.J. McClane's 60/20/20 rule.
08-15-2001 10:01 AM
erck The 'butt' is correct....
Any leader with 60% of the length (tapered, knotted, braided) that has a 'thicker' diameter than the 'body' or length of the leader is considered the butt.

Some guidelinescomments)
Start with the Ritz 60/20/20 rule and modify from there
Butt diameters should be roughly between 60% and 75% of the diameter of the fly line ( .017" - .022" ). 2/3rds is a good rule. The butt stiffness should approximate the stiffness of your fly line.

For complex Leader layout and construction, sections, lengths and such is all WELL documented. See link

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/#Types of Leaders
08-15-2001 09:47 AM
TinMan What is the proper term for the heavy piece of mono(?) that is attached between the leader and the fly line? I've heard "butt" mentioned? Anyway, is this "optional"? I have to admit I've bought all my stuff preconfigured and attach the leader to the fly line (or butt) via perfection loop (which is what the butt has on the end of it.
05-27-2001 06:58 PM
Hawkeye Hey Cowhide,

Welcome to the world of flyfishing. Be careful you could easily become obsessed like many on this board.

Before I answer your question you should know that you will get answers quicker and more reliably if you post on the appropriate message board. For example your question would be excellent for the "Lines, Loops, and Leaders" board or the "Gear Talk" board.

Your backing goes on first with a slip knot and a couple of overhand knots on the tag end to prevent slipping. The fly line comes next and is attached with a nail knot (I use nailless nail knots and they have served me well for years) or I think most people use an albright knot. The leader comes next and is attached using a nail knot (again nailless for me). And finally the tippet - I usually tie a loop in the end of the leader and tie the tippet on with a clinch knot and tie the fly on with a clinch as well.

All these knots should be diagramed in the packaging for your kit.

Good luck, and I look forward to your first report!
05-27-2001 06:23 PM
Cowhide
How to load your fly line on the reel

I am brand new to fly fishing and purchased a Courtland flyrod in a package. It comes with two lines, yellow fly line of about 30 yards and a white line, called "flyline backing" of about 50 yards. I have never taken a flyfishing class and thought I could teach myself. However, I don't know what line would go first on the reel and what line second. Any help out there.

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