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Art of Casting Analysis, refinement of the cast

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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-04-2004 09:03 AM
cf4s
Casting Competition

Today, Saturday, is the big one at the Ennis Fly Fishing Festival (fundraiser for the Madison River Foundation, not a commercial venture) and, among the many activities of the day, we're having a casting competition - distance and accuracy. Known ringers in the pro division will include Paul Arden, Bruce Richards and Brian O'Keefe, but they'll be up against a number of long guns from all over the states and the Yellowstone area's best. I'll try to get the results posted Monday on our web site ennisflyfishing.com.
09-04-2004 08:22 AM
paul brown
Quote:
Originally Posted by juro
That's impressive for single handed distance!

Yes, I usually stop at full arm extension but with a quick/abrupt bottom hand pull and the rod tip at a high angle.

I enjoy instructing people on practical casting for effective fishing but the tournament stuff is on a different level. I am just starting to incover some of the little nuances that these tournament casters use, fascinating stuff and very helpful for practical applications.
Hi Juro
thanks for the reply.
I'll try out your tips, do you have a long haul on your final forward cast?
Cheers
Paul
09-04-2004 08:18 AM
paul brown Hi John
thanks for the reply.
Sounds like you enjoy your visit when you captained the US team.
thanks for the tips I'll definately try them out.
Cheers
Paul
09-04-2004 08:13 AM
paul brown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Dick
Hi Paul, this post is off topic but when i saw you list Llyn Brenig as your location i have a question for you. How is the Brenig fishing these days ?, I was still living in North Wales when it was built and i got to fish it quite often in its early days. I must admit seeing the name again brought back some good memorys of my early days fishing in Wales. I used to fish it and the local rivers with Arthur Foxon from St Asaph, I know he still has his tackle shop there. Tight lines,brian
Hi Brian,
Sorry i've not replied sooner (I've been on holiday)
the Brenig is still a great place to fish, i had some great sport on the last visit in yacht club bay. As you say Foxon's tackle shop is still going strong. looking forward to getting out on a boat at the Brenig tomorrow!
Tight lines
Paul
08-19-2004 07:06 AM
FlyFishAR Paul:

I fished Llyn Brenig when I Captianed the American Team at the youth world championships back in 98. that is an impressive fishery. You are lucky guy to be fishing there. If you are bank fishing I can also understand your interest in shooting heads.

First of all if you are in a casting club that is your best shot. If you're already topping the 50 meter mark that would insure your position as one of the top American casters. I compete here in the states quite often. However, my greatest experience is with a 5 weight in competition. I did fairly well in competition this year.

As you know shooting heads are more of a function of a smooth slow back cast and getting your overhang to match your distance for turn over. The best tip I can give you is to delay turning over your hand. It really helps load the rod like crazy. It took my 5 weight distance to a new level. Another tip is to step forward into your final delivery. If you're over 50 meters I'm sure you are already doing both of those. I'll be glad to pass along anything I know.

John Wilson
08-15-2004 01:10 PM
Whiskey Dick
A question for Paul Brown

Hi Paul, this post is off topic but when i saw you list Llyn Brenig as your location i have a question for you. How is the Brenig fishing these days ?, I was still living in North Wales when it was built and i got to fish it quite often in its early days. I must admit seeing the name again brought back some good memorys of my early days fishing in Wales. I used to fish it and the local rivers with Arthur Foxon from St Asaph, I know he still has his tackle shop there. Tight lines,brian
08-15-2004 11:14 AM
juro That's impressive for single handed distance!

Yes, I usually stop at full arm extension but with a quick/abrupt bottom hand pull and the rod tip at a high angle.

I enjoy instructing people on practical casting for effective fishing but the tournament stuff is on a different level. I am just starting to incover some of the little nuances that these tournament casters use, fascinating stuff and very helpful for practical applications.
08-15-2004 05:07 AM
paul brown Hi Juro
the rods I am using are single handed trout distance rods between 9'-9 1/2' in length.
A lot of the guys in the club are using the Loomis blanks that are available from the American Casting Association. Once I get better with the single handed I'll hopefully start concentrating more on the double-handed. You mentioned you start your long stroke as a pull accelerating to a push before the final power stroke, do you stop at full arm extension?
Speak to you soon
Paul
08-13-2004 10:57 AM
juro My interpretation may differ from Mr.Nodera and the Rajeffs among others who employ it, but here goes:

The vee grip does not rely on the meat of the thumb to flex the rod as with the standard thumbs up grip, but instead uses the crotch of the hand between the thumb and index finger at the base to cradle the rod.

The back of the hand is turned to face you and the palm does the pushing on the rod.

My preference is for the index finger to open and point upward a little, letting the middle & ring fingers become the operative fingers for gripping the cork in conjunction with the thumb.

Therefore the rod handle contacts the index finger, the palm at the base of the index finger, across the hollow middle of the palm and nestles in the cleavage at the heel of the palm between the meat of the thumb muscle and the karate chop muscle.

The rod has a huge area of contact as a result. The hollow in the middle of the palm is in-line with the wrapping of fingers and thumb, just about everything else is touching cork.

The forward cast begins with a pulling motion from the backcast but soon becomes a push about mid-way. At that point the veegrip with the palm facing away puts a huge bend in the bottom of the rod which is the potential for the upcoming power snap to release the beast into the line.

I can push much more potential energy into the blank with a vee grip, particularly when spey casting. It does however seem natural and advantageous for overhead casting the Atlantis as well, and you may find this to be the case as well.

When you try it, give it some time. The hand will naturally seek it's comfort zone and if it's like my hand it really feels comfortable in that position.

I also noticed that when I go cast my trout single hander for practice after about 100 casts my hand naturally seeks to swivel palm forward to reduce the strain on the base of the thumb.

Another observation is that when backhand casting in a crosswind the hand settles on a knuckle forward position but with the same contact points on the hand-cork. In effect this is 180 degrees from the strong side vee grip, a reverse vee grip.

I will show you at Boneclave if interested.
08-13-2004 10:36 AM
Smcdermott Juro,

Can you describe the vee grip? How is that different from a standard grip?

Thanks,
Sean
08-13-2004 09:33 AM
juro Thanks for the reply.

How long are the rods you are throwing those lines on? Single or double hand rods?

Sounds interesting.
08-13-2004 08:14 AM
paul brown Hi Juro
Thanks for the reply.
I am what I call an 'intermediate' student of tournament casting (and a member of the British fly casting club), but I am slowly getting really hooked on the subject. Unfortunately I don't know of any books or videos that deal with this subject in real detail.
I like you, am talking about specialist rods and lines (heavy shooting heads 35grm 40-42 feet in length and custom built rods).
I've definately felt the benefit in my day-to-day fishing casts as normal casting with a 6 weight seems to now be in slow motion compared to the reaction time needed to control specialist tackle.
I'm at last getting some semi decent results averaging around the 150 feet mark and a personal best of 53yds 1ft (helped by a lucky gust!!!).
We've got some great casters over here in the club (Sam Davis, Mike Marshall and Carl Hutchinson to name a few) who all hit tremendous distances on a regular basis.
As regards grip I am still experimenting with thumb on top versus vee grip.
There never seems to be enough hours in the working week to practice as much as I would like, but I suppose that's true for all of us.
Give me a shout back if you've got any tips I can try out.
Cheers from England
Paul
08-12-2004 05:05 AM
juro Paul -

I am more of a fishing cast kinda guy but am very interested having seen Steve belt out ridiculous casts at Golden Gate this spring with a tournament rod. This was a distance casting two-hander which he cast for what looked like 250 ft from my angle and distance, maybe more.

By 'tournament casting' I am referring to distance casting with accuracy using extreme rods and technique, not putting a 3wt into a hula hoop. That's interesting and equally worthwhile but not what I meant, just to be clear.

Are you a student of tournament distance casting techniques? If so I am very interesting in talking about this topic. I am sure there is much to be learned to apply to my fishing casts' benefit.

For instance I have already gained a lot by adopting a vee grip, working on extending my stroke, tuning my accleration, etc. I do not cast vertical angle for fishing but understand how the top-pointed loop holds altitude when thrown vertically and is easier to aim.

What books are available on tournament casting that you would recommend? Videos?
08-04-2004 08:01 AM
paul brown
Tournament casting

Hi any of you guys into distance tournament casting with shooting heads (Rajeff, Korich and Gillibert style)?
If so any pointers on technique/ swapping of info would be most welcome.
Hope to hear from you soon (and hi from sunny old England)

Paul

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