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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-24-2001 10:00 AM
Mylo Stocking is an issue here in Ireland too. A lot of fisheries are based on their reputation as a wild trout water. Obviously this is incompatible with stocking - but often times angling clubs feel the need to augment the fish stock by adding to it rather than simply not taking from it...

Salmon stocking also occurs especially on rivers which have had their salmon runs decimated by hydroelectric stations. Hatchery fish don't survive like wild fish... A worrying thought when you consider some do make it up river to spawn, sharing dodgey genes with their native cousins...

In my view the issue is not the angling pluses or minuses, but the potential damage it could do to wild fish. Though certainly there is a case for stocking as has been outlined by Domenic, Juro and John above. All things in moderation...

The Irish Char Conservation Group recently held a conference in Ireland where many noted fisheries experts spoke. Prof Andy Fergusson spoke on brown trout in Ireland. Amongst other things he stated:
"The 3 main threats to brown trout in Ireland today:

1. Habitat loss ľas with other species
2. Introduction of other species leading to inter-specific competition
3. Stocking of non-native brown trout species

Ireland has a unique diversity of brown trout, which should be given a high priority conservation status by both fisheries and heritage managers... "
for the full report: http://www.charr.org/news/IFM.htm#af

I also include the following link to the articles we have on Irish brown trout:
http://www.charr.org/species/croneen.htm

I hope you enjoy what you read!

Myles
10-22-2001 04:36 PM
juro Lorenzo -

Recently Eddie visited your area. The trout he caught were legendary. Luis (trutta) recently visited Patagonia, his first time since his childhood. I have your country on my list of places I must fish before my time has passed.

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/destinations/patagonia/patagonia.htm

10-22-2001 03:22 PM
Lorenzo Two years ago while I was fishing the Malleo river in southern argentina I met an american angler from North Carolina, I asked him why he come from so far away to fish If I always see in the american's magazines pictures of big trouts, he just answer me: "Because these ones are wild...."

LG
10-19-2001 01:52 PM
Chris Rangley is still a great place to fish. The LL's are great fun and the feeders like the Rapid and others are super spots. It's just different and is a direct result of some of the misguided policies of put and take fishing.
10-15-2001 10:06 AM
juro Well said, Chris; shame about Rangely. I hope the management policies prove to be successful and that the efforts also provide data for other eastern seaboard states to evaluate.
10-13-2001 07:54 PM
Chris I would say we all would like to not have to catch hatchery fish. Unfortunately the great majority of trout, even in Maine, are mass produced factory fish. Uncountable streams do have self supporting brookie and landlocked salmon populations but nearly all at one place or another are stocked.

Many of the same factors that have caused us to become stocked fish whores, fishing pressure, the introduction of exotics-browns, rainbows, relocated LL salmon and now though not DIF&W sanctioned pike and I hear walleyes-were misguided policies of the states hatchery commissions in the first place.

Rangely Lake used to be, up until early in the 1900's, a fabulous giant brook trout water. The brookies were the top of the food chain and their main fodder was the now virtually extinct, except for a couple of very remote ponds in Aroostook Cty., blue back trout. The powers that be felt that having LL's in only their ONLY truely native lake, Sebago, was unacceptable. By deciding to truck LL's into Rangley, and many other lakes and rivers, along with their favorite food, the smelt, they ruined a perfect fishery. The smelt out competed the blue back for food and spawning beds in turn effecting the brookie's place in the pecking order. There are still some good brookies there but most are hold over stockers. The salmon fishing is great and both do have some success in self sustaining their numbers-but at what cost?

Today in Maine any water that has good spawning success rates has very strict season, tackle and bag limits to help improve the natural wild populations. As an example, the Kennebec River is second only to the Chessepeak Bay estuary for striped bass spawning habitat. The river from a line across the mouth to the first impoundment in Waterville is closed to bait AND the taking of ANY stripers until July 1st. Which is just about the same day the alewives move out of or have been transported above the dams to spawn. From then until October single hook lures or flies or bait can be used however, For the entire coast of Maine and the estuaries a slot limit of one fish between 20" and 26" or over 40" may be kept. We are trying, starting in '73 with the clean water act, by our own senator Ed Muskie, and with better science and understanding of the fish themselves and of the shortsightedness of many of the policies that brought us to this point I think things have the potential to get better. This horse can be flogged for ever-the solution begins when we each tackle little things that concern and effect us most closesly and do something.

We can rail about the policies and mistakes or get active in our local chapters of TU and CCA and try our best to protect whats left and fix whats wrong.

I just have to, as I suspect most of us do, feel fortunate that most of our water and woods here are free and open. When things in the east start getting like the cattle rancher/ fisherman conflicts of the west or worse pay for sport beats like in the UK-then we're really in trouble.

Take your rod, go to a favorite pool, with any luck you'll be alone, and cast your fly upon the water. Regardless of the underlying currents it is still the best salve for my soul in these uncertain or any other times.

Peace, Chris
10-02-2001 07:13 PM
troutdude There are all kinds of fishermen (and women) out there and many think of fishing as following around the stocking truck and dipping powerbait laden hooks to gut hook their fish. To a lot of people this is what fishing is all about--after all you need to bring home some fish to prove yourself. Others choose to wave a stick and try to lip hook a trout by inticing it to take a fake bug. These people are more prone to practice catch and release methods. Stocked fish serve a purpose to all kinds of fishermen and without it many would have no good fishing experiences. Personally, a secluded, peaceful native trout stream where I can catch and release (or at least try) is my cup of tea.
10-02-2001 03:34 PM
John Desjardins Juro,

My earlier response is my experience with the seamier side of stocking, where the sport of fishing is reduced to the act of catching meat and fish size/growth is pushed to its limits. I have had satisfying days fishing for stocked trout. Even frustrating days when a net full of fish is thrown into the pool I'm fishing in and I can't get a bite for the life of me. The reality of fishing in an area with as dense a population as ours is that stocking may be needed in those locations that receive high fishing pressure. Looking at the factors beyond the different habitats, I have often wondered why a stocking program is required for trout, while none is for large or small mouth bass.

Managing the fishing pressure is the key to reducing the need for stocking. This may not be popular but closure of streams with viable, reproducing populations of trout during the spawning period might help the fish. After the anger of having streams closed by the MDC a couple of weeks ago subsided, this was my first thought on the effect of the closure. Since the streams are open again (Wachusett area), we won't find out how this would work.
10-02-2001 10:05 AM
juro I certainly didn't mean to be unnecessarily frank about the whole thing, but I did mean to solicit some thought on the topic.

Truth be known, I've had some very memorable days chasing stocked trout with my young children, and learned to love trout because they were available to me due to stocking practices.

I think my point is there are right places to turn into hatchery populations and wrong places. Regardless of where in the country we reside, we don't seem to care about nurturing healthy populations of self-sufficient trout, instead we are obsessed with providing harvestable biomass.
10-02-2001 09:20 AM
John Desjardins Juro,

Your encounter with the hatchery worker reminds me of a place that I am somewhat ashamed of fishing once, where I caught the last 2 fish I kept.

On my honeymoon my wife and I went to Prince Edward Island. It was early in the year for salmon and I decided that rather than taking a whole day to buy a license and try to find some trout I would just go to a pay per fish pond. What a mistake. The pond was about 2 acres with aerator in the middle, and a retaining pool of ready to be stocked rainbow trout next to it. I checked in with the farmer running the place and set up to fish with a spinning rod and a worm. About five minutes later the farmer comes back and says "what no fish yet!" and starts throwing feed pellets into the water. Instantly there are swirls on the water and I have a fish on, a 12" or so rainbow. That one went into the bucket and I set about to catch another for dinner. More pellets are thrown in the water and I get a good hit that fights ok. After its landed it gets weighed at 5 1/2 pounds & 21". Talking to the farmer he says that the fish had been in there for ~ 1 year longer than the 12" rainbow, and that if it had stayed for 1 more year it would have been around 9 pounds. I paid the farmer and left with the fish.

As strange as it feels to hunt after stocked trout, the experience can be more surreal.
10-02-2001 04:20 AM
Domenic Juro,
Unfortunately this is Massachussetts.Its all put and take fishing.If they don't put em,you don't take em.Most ponds rise to the temperature of fish stew by august.I know some ponds do hold fish [Walden,White,and others].The stream fishing is about the same in this area.Though Walden sure has some monsters in it.It would be great to make just one deep pond around here catch and release.The only problem is you would need a 24 hour armed guard to keep out the poachers.I like wild fish much better,but this is the only game in town.
Domenic
Juro I am looking at a 10w 14ft Sage spey blank.
10-01-2001 07:24 PM
juro Is it just me or does the dump 'em and dip 'em attitude bother anyone else?

There is good and bad, of course. Without it there would be no trout to speak of in most waters in most of the US and abroad. Without trout in these waters, there would be no kids to pass the love of trout fishing onto. Where there are less fish there are less fishermen and that's certainly not a good thing for humanity the way I see things. Those who become close to the outdoors are the only ones who will protect it for what it is. We need more people to shut off their beepers and breathe in the forest air.

But couldn't we manage the ponds and lakes to produce better fish than just pump them full of short-term ripple finned pellet hatchery pout, er I mean trout? Why must we design the fishery for rapid exploitation instead of managing our waters as good habitat for appropriate species?

What if trout were introduced at the tiniest survivable size to seed waters with fish that will grow to become it's wise inhabitants over time, isn't that better than depositing accelerated growth adults (3x faster than natural specimens) for immediate collection via dyed pheromone laced marshmallows?

I once had a discussion with a hatchery worker about steelhead. He said "steelhead, schmeelhead - I'll give you a bigger fish faster than mother nature can with this" holding up a scoop full of pellets. Yeah, OK.

I love trout, I even love the concept of trout as much as the trout themselves. Perhaps that's why I am not completely at peace with the methods by which we perpetuate put-and-take mentality across the country, around the world.

I hope I am not bursting anyone's bubble, that is sincerely how I feel about hatchery policies of today and thanks for letting me get it off my chest.

.02

Juro
10-01-2001 06:52 PM
troutdude I have seen the stocking trucks out twice in the last 4 days in north central Mass. Worcester Telegram lists local stocking in the Sports section on tuesdays and fridays.
10-01-2001 04:58 PM
juro Here is the MA State Wildlife website...

http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dfw/
10-01-2001 04:10 PM
Craig Does anyone know when Mass Wild Life will start the fall stocking? Has it already begun?
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