|07-30-2004 10:27 AM|
For an Off the Beach setup I have been using a Loop 8116 with a Loop 8/9 adapted head and Poly leaders. The kit has been working very successfully It can either be cast underhanded, especially in tight quarters, or overhanded. One feature of using a 2 handed system off the beach is the lack of false casting. Just pickup the line and shoot. Farther and faster than a single hander. The benefit is the fly spends more time fishing.
Juro, does the Atlantis spey cast well? Was it deigned strictly as an overhead rod for conventional flylines?
Cheers N I
|07-30-2004 08:46 AM|
Sooke - yes its in Canada - 40 minutes North/west of Victoria on Vancouver Island - Point no Point is likely to be a popular name.
The whole "line cutting splicing" business appears to be more art than science... I will tune in now and again to see what you come up with because I haven't the Experience or resources to be chopping lines up on a whim.
The 7116 is a fantastic rod by the way - I've seen some one cast it right out to the backing (but not me), with a floating Delta spey line .
|07-30-2004 06:40 AM|
The Atlantis Surf-tamer 11/12wt loads with commercially available 11 and 12wt overhead lines, although some line brands run light or heavy. The new Atlantis All-around loads with commercially available 9 and 10wt lines (brands differ again, some 9wt lines have been light) but to get serious distances go with a 35 ft 10wt shooting head on the light action Atlantis with a slick shooter
The Loop 7116 sounds like a great weapon for the beach. The trick is to find out what grains per head length and taper the rod feels comfortable with for maximum casting distances and match the lines accordingly. Line ratings on spey rods are not very useful for overhead purposes as most of us have pretty much found out by now. I would contact LOOP and ask which lines they recommend for it, get the grains and head length of that line, and adjust for what you hope to use.
If they say it takes a line that is 450 grains over 50 feet, then it will probably only take about 400 over 35 ft. If you want to use a longer taper for overhead casting (sacrificing the short game) then maybe it will take 500 grains over 60 ft. Starting with a known sweet spot, go heavier for a longer head and lighter for a shorter head depending on what you plan to fish.
Furthermore, floating / intermediate and fast sinking lines tend to vary as well. IMHO this is because of factors like line diameter and density, air resistance and over "feel" of the line. A floating line of xgrains doesn't 'feel' the same as a hi-density line of exactly the same grains because of the way it cuts through the air.
Good luck with your quest. When you are ready to string up the "big gun" let me know how you plan to use it and I can steer you in the right line direction.
|07-30-2004 06:16 AM|
conversion from spey to AFTMA
I have the Loop blue 7116 like MATT and am also wondering what heads it works well with overhead casting in the salt. When I got mine a friend suggested to just go up 2 line sizes (a spey 7 wt uses an AFTMA 9 wt line) so I got a 30 foot Cortland sinking shooting head for a #9. This, looped onto Airflo polyshoot XT, doesn't even load the rod. I believe it is in the neighborhood of 300 grains. I also have the Atlantis 11/11 but have been so busy I have yet to even spool up a line to try on it (Soon! Soon!) Now I'm wondering if I have 2 of the same animal: that the 7116 is going to be an 11 weight also. Was hoping it would be a lighter surf and salt stick for smaller fish and the Atlantis the big gun.
|07-30-2004 05:55 AM|
Just curious, how far do those setups cast on grass off the water? It sounds like I am getting as much or more out of 11ft rods which coincidentally take the same grain ranges but are rated more in accordance to overhead lines (11ft 11/12wt, 11ft 9/10wt).
Having tested a broad range of rods on the beach since 1995, I find 11ft considerably more useful than 13ft for overall fishing (IMHO), but the longer rods have the potential to deliver greater casting distance due to a potentially longer stroke length and path of acceleration. The question is where the point of diminishing returns lies. Again I find it to be ~11ft.
At 380 grains the 5wt 12fter is actually a 10wt in AFTMA terms. At 650-700 grains the 9wt rod is probably off the chart by AFTMA standards (15-16wt?) as well although 12-13wt overhead lines available commercially typically fall close to that range in grains.
So both of these rods must be rated by spey line vernacular, emphasizing the huge difference between overhead lines and spey line ratings!
How about the stripping basket - which one do you use?
|07-30-2004 02:20 AM|
Iím not sure what a Sooke is, but it sounds really Canadian. Point No Point is on the south side (away from Canada) of Juan De Fuca. Point No point is just north (toward Canada) of Kingston on Puget Sound.
I also have stolen everything I could from the striper guys on the east coast and a few Australians. I have come up with pretty good system of overheading off the beach with two rods. The Sage 5120 is my Cutthroat rig. The 13 foot 9 wt Midgar is my Salmon rig. The sage will work in a pinch for fish in the 5 pound range so donít let the 5 weight nomenclature fool you.
Basically, the line Iím using is Mono with a Rio Big Boy or Aqualux head. I had been using loop to loop connectors, but they suck trying to get through the guides of the rod. I am on my way in the morning to learn the art of splicing mono to mono core fly line from a world famous fly fisher who lives in Stanwood. This master of the line promises that there will be seamless and smooth transition between the splices allowing me to do amazing things on the beach. For the Sage, distance on a good day is 90 feet. The Midgar, 130 feet.
The lines for the Sage is 380 grain, 25 foot head of intermediate, connected to 100 feet 15# Amnesia. I also have a head that is 35 feet of floating, but it sucks and will be replacing that with an Airflo 28 foot head of 380 grains.
After splicing line together tomorrow, I hope to have two lines for the Midgar on 25# Amnesia. An intermediate head of 36 feet at 650 to 700 grains and 40 feet of floating at 700 grains. As you can see, the Midgar is very strong and fast. It will Spey cast a 10/11/12 Windcutter.
These are the best fishable systems I could come up with. There was nobody here that does this sort of thing. It may not be pretty when I work the beach, but on occasion I do get a few fish.
|07-29-2004 08:55 PM|
Point No Point is About 20 minutes out of Sooke - good restaurant and cabins with hot tubs. Been a while - hopefully its still as good.
I grew up in Sooke but now reside in Ontario.
When fishing the chuck, what line are you using (Skagit setup?)
I am busy surfing around right now trying to see if I can find a formula for my Loop 7116 Blueline for when I visit my folks in Nanaimo. Saw some amazing Coho action in departure bay a couple of years ago and would like to practice here on the still water for the next "well timed" tri.
Instead of swinging the Grand, Shooting and retrieving will be a bit of a different gig... any suggestions? Guess this doesn't belong in this part of the forum... OH well.. Curious to hear how the PNP trip went. My grandparents are still in Sooke so trips west usually mean a drive to Sooke too.
|07-25-2004 09:16 PM|
PNP is that near Sooke? I seem to remember a Point named something like that down there.
I visited remote beaches on th north side of Campbell R. The Pink salmon were more than cooperative I am also using a short 2 hander off the beach this year (taking the que from the striper crew on the other coast) Works great!
Cheers N I
|07-25-2004 11:54 AM|
Well, I was out on Friday and could not believe the amount of bait fish in the water. Beach ball size pods swimming by in various stages of growth and species. A lot of cutts jumping and only saw one salmonid rise. No other fisherman or seal and it always seems like I ain't catching unless those two are present out at PNP.
My lead assed fly didn't swim like Don Blantons on fly fish tv. It flew straight and level through the water. No darting or erratic direction and without that, I'm sure I was just another bait fish in the water. I think I may try to contact someone on his tie and some others. Seems like it should work on an epoxy head herring like mine.
The Cutts were out about 80 to 100 feet in the current slicks that came off the point. With the 13 foot Midgar I could power out to 120 feet, but with the side wind it was looking bad and worse beyond 120. As I'd strip back through the cutts I'd get a plink every now and then, but that # 2 hook was too big for them little guys and when I checked the fly after each plink, they were nailing the 3 inch tail. Which is good with that 9 wt because to set the hook I would have launched them Cutts back into the thousands of sun bathers behind me. That is assuming their jaw didn't come unglued.
Should have brought the Sage 5120 and just chased Cutts with smaller flies, but I wanted Silver.
|07-21-2004 01:00 AM|
|mattzoid||Let me see if it swims like I want it to first. On a new pattern or design, I usually burn up 20 hooks before I get it right. If it even works. I'll know after Friday.|
|07-21-2004 12:39 AM|
Interested in a trade?
Cheers N I
|07-20-2004 01:10 PM|
|mattzoid||It's tied on a 2 with a 2 inch tail. You can just see the lead under the tail. This one turned out more purple than green, but I'll be working on that. I'm thinking the tail needs to be longer and the head thinner. Don't want to tie up too many until I see this thing swim. If it does what I want it to, I will go to town.|
|07-20-2004 10:13 AM|
Pinks have a strong year and a weak year, the even years the runs are larger. Yes, we are catching them off the beach. Your herring fly should do quite well!
What size and color do you tie it in?
Seeya out there N I
|07-20-2004 02:12 AM|
|mattzoid||I've heard of pinks in even numbered years. Are you catching them in the salt? I've been dying to try my lead assed herring. I'm just hoping I can get it to dart around like it did on fly fish tv for strippers except that it's tied like a pacific herring. I'm headed out to point no point this week to over head off the beach with my 13 foot Talon. Hoping for Coho.|
|07-19-2004 10:54 PM|
Pinks are in