|03-02-2002 11:35 PM|
I too fish only barbless, although I furnished most all the swap flies with the barbs on allowing the recipient to decide to crush them or not.
I have sunk a couple flies deep into my thumb and pulled them out easily and barely bleed at all. In contrast a fellow fisherman in our party up in Kodiak Alaska had the misfortune of sinking his barbed salmon fly right through his thumb. He was walking over to a new spot when his line got hung up on a rock while holding the fly in his hand. We used a heavy mono line to pull it out. He was bleeding badly and in great pain and the hole was quite larger and split more flesh than a barbless hook would have. Despite our suggestions he didn't want to fish barbless even after this experience do to his belief he would lose more fish. We never lost a single fish due to the lack of barbs, mostly breakoffs, poor knots or fouled hooks.
My limited experience catching Tuna on barbless hooks has proven despite the blistering run and return trip towards the boat they were still hooked despite the huge amount of slack and large amount of time to reel it in. I thought I had lost them for sure. Apparently the drag from the fly line itself was enough to keep them hooked for me.
Perhaps I was just lucky...
|02-13-2002 09:19 PM|
|01-23-2002 10:27 PM|
Re: Good topic!
To follow up on Juro's post, I remember several years ago seeing data published somewhere on different hook coatings. The one that I remember was to avoid cadmium plated hooks at all costs. They had a very high mortality rate due to the cadmium leaching into the fish.
The other item is that circle hooks work with bait, whether it is for stripers or sunfish. Last year I got some # 6 & 8 Mustad circle hooks from Blue Northern to use when bait fishing with my son. The result was a drop in the percentage of fish he caught that were gut hooked fish from ~25% to less than 5%.
|01-23-2002 08:57 PM|
I've got it!!
I discovered that my education involves wading the beautiful rivers of the PNW in pursuit of chrome wild winter steelhead. Being proficient in the two-handed rod is mandatory as those daily D-Loop pop quizzes can be a b*tch and they account for a large portion of my grade. Must practice, practice, practice!!!
...wait a minute, you were talking about my college education, weren't 'ya??
|01-23-2002 08:46 PM|
Ryan I hope it was because you were trying to figure out how to get that education thing straightned out.
|01-23-2002 08:34 PM|
Wow...I missed out on a great discussion!!
Note To Self-Read Archive of Striper (etc.) Fly Patterns Board on a daily basis.
|01-23-2002 08:03 PM|
If you tie tube flies you can use 'disposable' hooks of any metal and replace them at will. Large enough tubes will allow blind wire loops to hold the hook, surgeon's knot to the leader and you're all set for blues.
I can't say I haven't broken off hooks, I have - but so rarely on stripers that I can only recall one. And it was a freaking submarine.
Blues... well they're another story. But I highly doubt that a blue will be harmed by a lip ornament. I caught one off Fisher's Island that weighed 15# on the scale and had a large piece of bent stainless steel in it's gut... totally in its gut. The twisted metal object looked like it was dropped off a ship or something and eaten as it wobbled downward.
Selection of metals is a much greater concern for bait anglers because of the pecentage of gut hookings. Trout anglers with salmon eggs, catfish anglers, bottom fishing, etc - experience gut hookings as often as they do lip hookings. In these cases using a metal that disintegrates over time would increase the survival odds of the unlucky fish who swallows a tasty bait morsel.
IMHO this is a minor factor for striper flyfishermen simply because fish rarely swallow the fly. It's more likely that they may take it into the gills (also rare), in which case the proper approach is to push it out the gill openings and cut the tippet without damaging the rakers or main gill member which is equivalent to it's aorta. The metal makes no difference in this case though.
Crab flies are the exception, I've had them swallowed in blind fishing situations because stripers try to mash the shells using their throat molar plates. Leaving non-stainless hooks would be a kinder thing for these fish if you insist on using crab flies in blind situations. My solution to this was to stop using a crab fly in blind fishing situations. Sight fishing allows you to time the hookset so you can avoid deep hookups. The problem is much less there. A circle hook for crab patterns is a winning combination for blind fishing with crab flies IMHO.
|01-23-2002 11:19 AM|
Stainless steel generates the least ammount of field of all the ferro-magnetic materials. Whether or not a fish can pick it up- who knows?
|01-22-2002 07:56 PM|
The question wasn`t wether the hooks were attracted to magnets but rather does stainless generate it`s oun magnetic field which could be detected by fish. Bonderow dedicates a couple of pages in his book, Stripers and Streamers, to this very subject. Either way,my feeling is that a stainless hook is considerably more dangerous than a plated hook which will eventualy disintergrate. I myself, having never broken off a fish, don`t need to be concerned with this problem.
|01-22-2002 04:20 PM|
|John Desjardins||I guess I'd be listed as a doubting thomas on the magnetic properties of hooks altering how many fish are caught. The simplest reason is that I've never had any hook fall off of the magnet glued onto the base of my fly tying vise.|
|01-22-2002 03:45 PM|
I think you reversed poles by mistake. How's that for a two way pun. Could be a Polish or magnetic pun when you think about it?
Steel hooks attract to magnetic fields. Stainless has very little attraction qualities. Some believe that low voltage of electrons can be sensed by fish and they show an interest.
If that were the case, logic would tell you there would be schools of fish under every oil tanker. One company used to market a magnetic devise that was lowered from a boat with low frequency pulse to attract fish.
Hah!, the old debate of stainless vs. steel hooks. Very heated discussions about 20 years ago. There are pro's and con's for each position. One fallacy I never took light to was steel hook wouldn't last longer than one month. Think it takes longer than that. Most times they get impaled by growing tissue.
|01-22-2002 01:53 PM|
To barb or not is a strictly personal preferance, while I advocate it I would be the last one to force my opinion on someone. With the high philosophical content of this discussion I think it only right to ask another question. What about the role of stainless steel as opposed to non-stainless? Surely a fish that swims off with a stainless hook lodged in it`s jaw or gullet has a lot less chance of survival than one that is hooked with a hook that will rust out in a couple of days. True an arguement can be made about non-stainless coroding and discoloring after a few uses, but is anyone here so economicaly challenged that they can`t afford to change a fly after a few uses? By then they get pretty ragged anyways. Also in his book Ray Bondorew states that he believes that stainless hooks create a magnetic field that fish can detect and that he only uses plated hooks for that reason. He admits he dosn`t have scientific proof of this, but who knows?
|01-17-2002 12:51 AM|
THE BARB from THE BARDS OF THE BOARD
Well Said to you MR President and to the postings of Adrian, artb,roop,,john and all who contributwed to this thread. This discussion could go on and on with points for both sides but maybe we should say LET YOUR CONSIOUS BE YOUR GUIDE in which ever route you choose to follow.
Tight Lines saltRon
|01-16-2002 10:20 PM|
|striblue||Well said.. and I agree that it is be better to go barbless.. It is just that ..in many cases.. the bard has not done the damage that I could put my finger on ... with lip hooks ....not gut hooks. so, I guess with the potential of gut hooks... with other or various species, and rough hook removals with lip hooks... those are the most obvious dangers.( apart from removing them from fingers and ears.)|
|01-16-2002 08:58 PM|
CATCH & RELEASE------FACT OR FICTION
Mr President I agree that this thread has taken more of a philosophical trend than factual. To be factual we would have to start quoting the findings by other bodies of men & women, most unknown to any of us who would be quoting FACTS???? and findings that we would probably disagree with.
We have all fished with barbs in place and possibly practiced release fishing. I doubt that we really made note of the no. of bleeders that we had or there survival rate. I am sure that we still to-day, fishing barbless see those occasional fish that we know will not survive but can not be harvisited for whatever reason.
I guess it still comes down to that personal preference thing but it should be tempered with our hopes for the survival of these beautiful aquatic creatures.
For what its worth saltRon
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