|10-29-2000 10:11 PM|
Holy cow! In no way did what I said in the top of this thread intend to imply anything worthy of the fear and concern shown thru this thread. It almost seems like the first half was ingnored and the second half misinterpreted. This is like the snowflake that falls on the slope and rolls into a giant ball.
<b>I simply meant to say that you will find that I (or others) will say things like "the bait chuckers" and huff and puff about three sets of barbed trebles -or- those nasty umbrella rigs -or- whatever, and I would expect that it would be tolerated here, on this FLYFISHING site... even if it is a bit "elitist". If a member feels that more people should flyfish for the good of schoolies at Plum Island, then that opinion will be tolerated here. If someone says "the way to catch an atlantic salmon is to fish like a man - move the fish to the dry fly" then it will be tolerated here. THAT is what I refer to as playful elitism, not the string of interpretations that ensued.</b>
Please don't confuse other's interpretations with the intent of my message. To be clear, I was just making sure we didn't get so bottled up about it that we couldn't muse as flyfishers often do without people going off in the other direction against it - this being a flyfishing site and all.
I noticed that as this thread progressed people were replying to me as if I had proposed the things that some people feared in their replies. In other words, their words became my words. I assure you, my words and thoughts were totally independent of what people may have embellished.
I am a purist, and proud of it - but not an elitist. There is a big difference...
A purist constrains his own practices to that which he believes in. An eel afficionado is an eel purist, not breaking down to throw poppers or chunks, for instance. A dry fly purist is... well you know.
An elitist tries to constrain other people's practices or looks down upon others who do not prescribe to their point of view. There are such things as elitist circles in flyfishing, I guess. I've never been in one. In fact political correctness is a form of elitism in the guise of tolerance. It is the intolerance of intolerance.
I never suspected I'd create such a reaction with this thread... which only meant to say "anyone can say what they believe, what counts is the friendship, but let's not get so PC as to be intolerant of the common musings of flyfishermen in a flyfishing venue."
I do sincerely hope I have finally expressed my intent well.
|10-29-2000 07:12 PM|
I shudder at the hint of eliteism creeping into the 'community' that's taken hold in this corner of the e.world. More importantly, this board has seen and shown how the thread of common interest can translate into positve action. I know that every event that was intitated by a member of this board (many of which i had to miss this summer <grrr> had only one qualifier, to share the true joy we find in exploring the margins between land, air and ocean. Personally I chose this year to solely fish the flyrod as a challenge to myself in the hopes it would make me a better fisherman. Would I have felt excluded if I split my time between slinging eels, tossing plugs and working the long wand?
Let's never think in terms of 'us' and 'them', or we might find that the next Al_D, grego, hawkeye, terry, sully or juro might turn away and (as the aformentioned are all examples of..)that would be all of our loss.
my $ .02
|10-29-2000 04:00 PM|
What's all this Bubba crap? Elitism? What did I miss?
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not as active a member here, as compared to another board. But, I accept the fact that this board is "fly fish" only...while the other board is more tolerant of other types of fishing.
With that said...I have learned a lot from this board and it's members. For that, I am very thankful.
Looking forward to tying some flies this winter!
|10-29-2000 01:09 PM|
If it were not that the deer season opens this weekend, I would head from Chicago to Boston with some fine PeatWater and join you at the scotch clave instead of returning to Calgary.
As for elitism, I have very little tolerance for it, expertise and extensive knowledege (perfectionism)of a topic I like.
Perhaps instead of Elitism, one should think of " Noblesse Oblige", which roughly translated could mean that we have an obligation to promote our views and values by way of open debate, and be tolerant of the ambiguity we create in the process.
|10-28-2000 09:19 AM|
I'd be happy to offer my downstairs for a Winter Scotch/Tying Clave.
A farewell at the Chatham Angling Society HQ next weekend sounds bitter-sweet, but appropriate.
|10-27-2000 11:02 PM|
Well that's a quorum then! Scotch clave it is. We'll set a date in the heart of winter, or at least after the first snow. My bottle of double wood Balvenie is down to it's last bad night's relief, so I'll have to buy another bottle.
I heard the fat lady's going to make a showing on Sunday. She might whine and hiss but she better not sing before next weekend's farewell at the Chatham Angling Society HQ!
|10-27-2000 08:09 PM|
I have an unopened bottle of Glenfiddich!!! and would be willing to donate it to the clave. but you can bet your ass I'll make it to this clave!!! but you'll never get my bottle of 1970 Maccallam! lol Tom D
|10-27-2000 07:41 PM|
|i'm so outta here||
Hell, I don't know. Maybe it's a sickness. I just can't help but argue the unpopular side of a debate. You guys are right, this is probably a topic better discussed in person over scotch. I have a bottle of Laphroage and some ice trays.
Who gets to be designated driver?
|10-27-2000 12:57 PM|
|i'm so outta here||
Look folks, I don't want to preach PC values. In fact, I despise them almost as much as prejudice and stereotypes, since they are really the same thing only the other side of the coin.
Knee jerk responses aside, I feel it's important to discuss these things. How far do we allow "playful elitism" to go? You can't shake hands with the Devil and say you're only kidding. At what point does someone step in and say, "hey, you've stepped over the line." I'm a purist too (for the most part), but I recognize that I can learn from multiple sources and don't want to alientate anyone for the sake of fun and games.
I apologize for getting on my high horse with you Terry, but I saw the playful elitism thing extending to include matters of class and social standing. I didn't mean to sling mud on you, my friend.
Juro, I agree mostly with what you are saying, but an elitist mentality does nothing to educate those who are practicing the unsavory techniques that we all want to eliminate. In fact, it only adds fuel to the fire of the likes of Louis Beatini.
Exactly what goal do we seek to accomplish with playful elitism? I would put forth that it really just makes us feel better about ourselves. It certainly does little to effect any change in the way people treat fish. I would argue for a more enlightened approach (See there, my intellectual elitism is in full bloom :->
What are we really after? How do we want this community to evolve? I want it to be a fly fishing only site, too. But I don't want to be part of an electronic circle jerk where we all sit around and congratulate each other on what superior beings we are. I need something more than that.
Is it me who should be thinking about leaving?
|10-27-2000 12:55 PM|
Is Al gonna make a sign up sheet for that one? I can bring 3 rocks glasses, 1 ice tray, and a bottle of single malt. waddyasay?
|10-27-2000 12:52 PM|
Thanks Terry, you are a conscientious and generous member and we're glad to have you on board.
Now I'll be even more to the point....
EVERYBODY LIGHTEN UP!!!!
How about a scotch drinking clave? (no smiley)
|10-27-2000 12:15 PM|
More to the point: The fishing is ending. Now is the begining of the great debating season. There is bound to be some discussions, some heated debates, and evan some arguments and flames. Having gotten stuck in the mud of a recent debate I had to relearn to be careful, keep it simple and give a guy a break once in a while. That being said, I hope there will be moderation as a safeguard when needed. Learning from the great demise of Reel-Time, it would be a wise move to prevent the unraveling of a good website that so much of us have invested in and benefited from. I'll shut up now.
|10-27-2000 12:10 PM|
OUCH! Nick, you were right all along - money can buy championships. Safeco has the all-star game next year though - I guess a World Series this October would have been too much for the humble Mariners Fans to handle in such a short time. The folks in Seattle might not agree...
Back to fishing! My sortie will depend on time. Sunday's a goner but Sat has potential. Thanks to GregO and TerryW, I am looking south. I'll have a chat with my activities coordinator aka. better half and post my plans later today. Hope to hook up with you guys!
|10-27-2000 10:47 AM|
When I saw the title I was hoping that this was going to be your view on where all the fish are going to be this weekend.
PS-Did you watch the game last night, or had you given up after the ALCS?
|10-27-2000 10:02 AM|
With all the bubba / us and them / finger pointing and such lately, I just thought I would try to express a couple things that I believe are true.
Everybody's voice is equal here, we are a open community and there is no dictated outlook or fishing philosophy that must be followed other than upholding (and growing) our premier angling club and the camaraderie we have going.
That being said, this is a flyfishing site and although good folks are never shunned for not being of the FF persuasion, purism and even a degree of playful elitism is welcome here.
I am among the most admant purists out there, so I hope we agree - so I can stay