Dear God, even here ... :>( [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Dear God, even here ... :>(

02-19-2003, 01:27 PM
From Monday's Medford Mail Tribune.

Crime Reports

A 44-year-old Klamath Falls man was arrested Sunday afternoon on suspicion of menacing another man with a gun after their lines got snagged while fly fishing at Cole Rivers Hatchery.
Sheriff’s deputies arrested Randy Ray Wagner, of the 5000 block of Bartlett Street, on suspicion of menacing, coercion, carrying and attempting to use a weapon, and harassment.

He was being held on $24,000 bail.

According to sheriff’s department reports, Wagner’s line got snagged in the line of another fly-fisherman.

When the other man left, deputies said Wagner followed, allegedly threatening him with a gun.


Willie Gunn
02-19-2003, 02:08 PM
this would never have happened with double tapers, no one cast far enough. XLTs + Rio grandes are to blame.


John Desjardins
02-19-2003, 02:46 PM
Fred this is serious, I think that your region needs a couple of feet of snow to chill things out. How about it anyone up for sending our snow to Fred. :devil:

02-19-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by John Desjardins
Fred this is serious, I think that your region needs a couple of feet of snow to chill things out. How about it anyone up for sending our snow to Fred. :devil:

Commercial Driver's License in my pocket, ready to roll - let's hit 'em with all we got !!!! :whoa: :razz: :chuckle: :eyecrazy: :devil: :smokin: (nah, that'd take way too long - anybody got a squadron of 141's and 5-A's we could shovel some of this stuff into and quick deliver to good ole' Freddie Boy? :cool: )

02-19-2003, 03:44 PM
we could use some out here

02-19-2003, 03:53 PM
You can talk all you want about those types of fisherman in the GLs but I know they are every where.

I find the fly fisherman at fault here trying to fish at the hatchery run/hole with a crowd of gear anglers. What was he thinking ?

I learned that lesson 23 years ago upon my arrival in the GLs.

Only venture into those locations with your fly rod, when the run is not started or over, and the maddening crowds are gone.

PM Out

P.S. What beer label was he drinking ? (had to ask)

02-19-2003, 04:06 PM
Actually the "Hatchery Hole" aka the "zoo hole" is several hundred yards long from top to bottom. Bank guys usually take up a pretty small area at this time of the years. Lots of area for long and short casting fly-guys.

This fellow had to be a total twit and could only have been fishing a 30-40 yard stretch of the thing. Jurk!

Forgot to add: we'll take all the snow we can get. It's looking pretty grim from the snow pack stats. Farther north in Oregon you go, the worse it gets.

02-19-2003, 04:44 PM
Theres one in every steelhead river. He won't do that ever again.

No snow here, sunny 45-50, blue sky, no wind, I am now watching the sun set in the west from my office. Same tomorrow.

Pm Out

02-19-2003, 06:22 PM

I find the fly fisherman at fault here trying to fish at the hatchery run/hole with a crowd of gear anglers. What was he thinking ?


Gear anglers are not a bad crowd. Never judge a man by how he fishes(do not confuse fish with snag), he is out to have fun.

Seen way too many fly anglers ripping the redds on the PM proclaimimg them selves "true fly fisherman".

02-19-2003, 06:49 PM
I was criticizing the fly fisherman not the gear anglers.

PM Out

02-19-2003, 07:47 PM
That was not your implication bro'.

I myself never go into the woods alone, always have a friend with you.

02-20-2003, 07:27 AM
My buddies on trips are Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson. Just having them even slightly visible puts a cheerful look on everyone's face. And no one ever gets aggressive with me, always just helpful.



02-20-2003, 07:57 AM
Those are 2 good friends to have.

I remember a phrase, it goes something like this; "God created man, Smith and Wesson made them equal".

02-20-2003, 08:46 AM
There also were many old Colts (some even percussion) that had the stocks carved with an inscription that read:

"Be not afraid of any man,
No matter what his size,
In case of danger, call on me
And I will equalize."


02-20-2003, 09:10 AM
Mr Smith and Wesson promotes co-operation! :tsk_tsk: - that is just the kind of attitude that results in those who don't possess such big guns to look for some kind of underhanded retribution.

Give your head a shake.

02-20-2003, 09:15 AM
I can't carry heat , Illinois is a "no carry" state.

When needed I use my friendly fly fisherman character traits, like in December when I snagged the good old boys gear lines who must have had 6 rods out between the two of them, kerplunking spawn.

No problem they were even nice about it.

Of course I make sure I am unshaven my hair is dirty and I donot have Orvis and Simms labels all over me.


PM Out

02-20-2003, 11:54 AM
Even if it were you would not be able to "pack iron" in other states.

Indy. is a carry state, always watch your back and bring a special friend.

02-20-2003, 12:50 PM
In order to fish the Genesee just below the (impassable) falls, you have to park adjacent to a major "ghetto". To get in from the west side you go down a trail, laughingly called "The Goat Trail". Neat things happen, like kids pelting fishermen with big rocks, just for laughs, from a bridge at least 100 feet high, when you are fishing the gorge.

In addition, drug addicts are busily engaged in snagging so they can rip out the eggs, and sell them to support their habit. This year, the "eastern Europeans" (Ukranian immigrants, I think) got in on the action, too, and these Russian mafia types just don't take kindly to you running into their lines - even if you have a fish on!

At least three or four times a year, some poor fisherman finds a body down there, too. Usually just a prostitute high on drugs, no bullet holes.

Last fall, an eco-officer tried to arrest a guy for snagging, no license, etc. The guy pleaded he could speak no English, speaking in Russian. He almost dropped when the ECO answered him back in flawless Russian! When that didn't work, a scuffle ensued. (Thank God there were 2 ECOs.) With no way to get this character out of the gorge, (very streep sides) they had to call the fire dept., get a raft across the river, and tow him across to be winched up and out.

Other than that, it's a good place for steelies, (one of the best in the state) and provides a good day's sport without having to drive a long way. Pleasant fishing, too - as long as you have a little exposed "persuasion" showing.:tsk_tsk:

You ought to give it a try sometime.


02-20-2003, 02:03 PM
But that's one of the interesting things about the Board. You just never know (and why I, as the originator of a thread) have pulled a few (very few, over the years) off.

The reason this made local news (and you'll note how short the report was) is this kind of thing is almost unheard of down here. Frequently the 'major local news' is some college student sitting in a tree "protesting" something or another. No kidding.

02-20-2003, 03:48 PM
I have an expert big game hunter and target shooting friend.

Any way he informed me at Christmas time if you get a "carry" hand gun permit in one state they accept it in other states. This gentlemen is a huge big game hunter and expert marksmen. He lived in Illiniois, (now retired in Vegas) could not get a hand gun carry permit from IL ,got one in Florida ,which then gave him an entry into other states to obtain their carry permits as needed.

I have not checked it out yet but that is my current understanding of the hand gun "carry" laws.

Not a big gun advocate due to having teenage boys in the house. But would consider carrying on some fishing trips if I could get a carry permit in other states.

PM Out

02-20-2003, 03:56 PM
Well guy's this is not the first time , this has happend here . Probably the first time somebody reported it .I have seen and ran into a knuckle head that is a local fly fisherman here .If you get too close to this guy or float through , He will usally start lipping off .Then on what mood this guy is in he will FLASH His GUN. Then he will normally leave for the day .Alot off people that fish the dump know this P---. I have numerous encouter's with this guy over the year's along with everybody else on the Rogue . Although he hasn't Flashed it at me ,But told me he was packing it and would take care of the situation . I have always laughed at him along with alot people that fish there . But I know of a couple of instance's where he did flash it at a Salmon Hole . They ran him off at that hole .He has been a pain in the --- for along time .Everybody know's that he does this time after time , most of us laugh and ingore him . He has called the man on several times because he feels threatend .But yet everybody keeps putting up with this guy . What to do ?????? Fish-Head :(

02-20-2003, 04:10 PM
Does this guy fish with an 18 foot spey rod ?

(Sorry I could not resist, Fred please forgive me)


Gotta go

PM Out

02-20-2003, 05:25 PM
Hal, I firmly DOUBT that a permit to carry a handgun (regardless of purpose) allows use in other states. To my knowledge, this is NOT the case. Check this one very out very carefully, and contact law enforcement reps in the other states, as well. I believe there are exceptions for certain law enforcement officers, but that's about the extent of it.


02-20-2003, 06:36 PM
Its state by state, but by getting one in one state there is some transfer type privileges this gentlemen obtained. Beleive me talk about a gun expert, ever see a hunter with 7 perrazzis, I did. More research is needed. Not high on the radar, my hunting knife and hand to hand combat will have to suffice for now. Also my ski pole (wading staff) has a very sharp tip !!

PM Out

02-20-2003, 07:22 PM
Itr all depends on the state, just having to carry one kind of negates negates the neat fishing thing.

Little laws like carry permits only hurt the victim and not the offender. Teenage boys are old enough to know the gun is not a toy its a weapon. It would be pure insanity to leave a loaded weapon unlocked with kids present.

John Desjardins
02-20-2003, 08:11 PM
Living in a state that has restrictive laws on gun ownership I'm still waiting to see someone convicted of violating the gunlaws. All I ever see in the court reports is "Dismissed"on these cases.

02-20-2003, 09:15 PM

I have never seen anything like the Genessee out here which you described above. It was pretty bad when snagging was legal by the dams here, where the fish accumulated. Never spent much time there after seeing the characters, actually families snagging the heck out of what ever they could. They thought it was fun.

No fish is worth putting your self through that type of risks.

I would rather stay home and think about fishing than go and be confronted with those situations again. A matter of fact thats what I do, avoid these types of scenarios at all costs.

PM Out

Greg Pavlov
02-21-2003, 01:35 AM
Bob K I have never seen anything like the Genessee out here which you described above.

I've fished the Genny just below the falls and I have never seen anything like the Genny described above either.

02-21-2003, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher

I have never seen anything like the Genessee out here which you described above. .

PM Out

Then you have never ventured to 6th street dam in the 80's.

02-21-2003, 06:08 AM
It doesn't happen everyday on the "Genny" - it occurs mainly in the Fall during the salmon runs. Especially on warm, pleasant days. If you gothere often enough, you will see stuff that makes your hair curl. Just be ready for it - it happens often enough to be prepared for it! This last fall was "moderately" calm, but to have seen and witnessed the ECO incident and others......


02-21-2003, 07:56 AM
It's sad to say, but at times the human gene pool needs thinning.:devil:

02-21-2003, 08:27 AM
I was told by an "Old Sourdough" when I first moved to Alaska that if you were going to pack a pistol around for protection you should file the sights off so when whatever or who ever you pulled your pistol on took it away from you it would not hurt so much when he shoved up your a#$.
Seriously I have heard of such going ons for a long time and Zane Grey used to hire thugs to beat up and chase away other fishermen down in southern Oregon a long bloody time ago. Is there anything new other than the Rio Grand Spey wow now theres something worth talking about.

Bob Pauli
02-21-2003, 04:54 PM
Several points:
1. Brandishing -- displaying a weapon in a threatening manner is a crime. Get the boat number and file a complaint. Police and DAs look very dimly on brandishing. This bad guy can be stopped with one visit [by the complaintant] to the responsible local police authority.

2. Carry permits are mischaracterized in this thread, if what is referred to really is a "license to carry concealed pistol, revolver, ot other firearm within the state of ___________." Other terms are CWP for "concealed weapons permit" and CCW for "carry concealed weapon." These licenses allow a person to carry a concealed weapon.

3. In Calif. and many other states carrying a pistol in an external holster, in view of others is not regulated by law when one is in undeveloped areas fishing, hunting, camping and the like. I believe that the majority of members of this board live in states where one can carry a pistol in a visible holster in the conditions described, without a license.

4. A permit in one state does not automatically entitle a person to carry concealed in another state.

Suggestion: talk to your local NRA expert, and confirm this information with the local police dept.

Nooksack Mac
02-21-2003, 06:49 PM
It's my impression (but please don't accept this without confirmation) that a concea
led carry permit is not officially valid in other states; but there is a movement underway to create recriprocity. (Not such a radical idea: your driver's license is valid in the other 49 states.) As a practical matter, police in other states will usually recognize that a CCP means that the owner is a solid citizen rather than a "criminal element" and will normally not press charges, absent a related crime.
"Brandishing" or "threatening" with a gun is rightly considered a crime. On the other hand, casually displaying a gun, if the anectodal evidence is to be believed, has prevented countless incipient acts of criminal violence.
This issue is needlessly complicated by the misconception of "concealed weapons." Long ago, some beaurocratic dweeb got the idea that carrying a handgun out of sight is sinister evidence of nefarious intent. Actually, handguns are typically concealed by their nature: small and frequently worn under clothing. In recent years, as CCPs have become more widely available, gun-related crime rates have dropped; the would-be criminal can't be certain what kind of armed resistance he may face. "An armed society is a polite society."
I shouldn't have to worry about such things, but the older I grow, the more I become a potential target for the violent predators among us. Relying on the kindness of strangers just doesn't cut it, but a Glock .45 rides quite comfortably under my fishing vest.

02-21-2003, 09:53 PM
The current US hand gun laws are meant to jail the innocent and do nothing to the criminal.

02-21-2003, 11:27 PM
i myself usually don't have problems with other anglers.....i am covered in tatoos, body peircings, 6'2" weigh 293, was an all star college defensive lineman, and fish with a woman who makes me call her "Maam". i let her deal with any jerks!!!!

Greg Pavlov
02-22-2003, 03:25 AM
Then you have never ventured to 6th street dam in the 80's.

That was 15 - 20 years ago.

Re the heart of the salmon run: I haven't been there for that,
so that's maybe why I've been spared.

I haven't tried the goat trail. I park at the head of the power
station access road.

02-22-2003, 07:39 AM
Fred, I gather you married a Redhead too!

Cracked up when I read your post, you (and your lady) I'ed like to meet.:D